Coming up: Yamaha Montage standalone VST

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Gam456 wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 1:27 pm
IvyBirds wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 11:32 am
I see you haven't bothered to actually read my posts but want to continue to argue
You neither. Even with a glimps of difference. You keep saying they are the same.
FM Lab only include algo from FM-X, like the DX7 and others models. Nothing more.
I never said they were the same from the very beginning I pointed out there were differences.

However with the exception of a few modulation options that are built into the Montage hardware the FM-X engine inside of HALion7/FM Lab can do everything that Montage can do and then some

When you actually get a Montage and learn the FM-X engine and then use the FM-X engine inside of HALion7 you would see for yourself

Yamaha style FM is all about the output of the operators and how they interact with each other in algorithms

The FM Operators inside of HALion7 can output everything they Operators inside of Montage can do and then you have the same exact FM algorithms. Again there are a few slight differences with Modulation Sources like LFOs and the effects are different between the two but at the operator level and the algorithms they are the same, the difference is the operators inside of HALion7 can also output TX81Z and SY99 waveforms that Montage can't

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Gam456 wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 1:27 pm
IvyBirds wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 11:32 am
I see you haven't bothered to actually read my posts but want to continue to argue
You neither. Even with a glimps of difference. You keep saying they are the same.
FM Lab only include algo from FM-X, like the DX7 and others models. Nothing more.
Have you ever used FM Lab or FM-X in Montage? It's not just the Algos it's the operators also?

What more is there in FM?

FM-X has the following eight harmonic spectra, which are
called "Spectral Forms" and expand the sonic possibilities
of FM synthesis significantly:
• Sine Sine wave - no overtones
• All1 Broad band - all harmonic partials
• ALL2 Narrow band - all harmonic partials
• Odd1 Broad band - odd harmonic partials
• Odd2 Narrow band - odd harmonic partials
• Res 1 Resonant broad band
• Res 2 Resonant narrow band

All of those are unique to FM-X and are of course in both Montage and HALion7 since both have FM-X engines

Then of course you can shape them with the spectral skirt which again are identical between Montage and HALion7 again because it's all part of of the FM-X engine

Then inside of HALion7 you have the additional waveforms that are from the TX81Z and SY99. Montage doesn't have them and much to annoyance of FM heads didn't include them in the new Montage M. The DX7 was just sine waves and that's already in the basic FM-X operators that are in both. As a result you can easily load DX7 Sysex into a Montage. Yamaha gives you a tool to transfer them from a computer to your Montage via USB

To claim it's just the algorithms is simply not true

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So it is as I imagined -- only for M keyboard owners.

But I wonder if it is possible to buy an M, register the software, then sell the M, and keep the software?

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JamminFool wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 2:32 am
DCrown wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 1:15 am
Have you thought about buying the hardware with plugin included and then selling the hardware unused for a good price keeping the plugin.
Should be possible!?
so the new owner would not get the plugin? hmmm...
Yes, there are musicians who don't care about plugins at all. I remember an offer of plugin only in sell & buy thread here.

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someone commented on youtube that in summer there is a PRO version released, maybe it means vst for all or something. i dunno, i keep this on watch and hope it gets released ;D
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We also have had that conversation in this thread, about the full version released in the summer. But I wouldn't get my hopes up over a vst for all. It more likely really just means full version for M hardware owners released in the summer.

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VitaminD wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 5:20 am We also have had that conversation in this thread, about the full version released in the summer. But I wouldn't get my hopes up over a vst for all. It more likely really just means full version for M hardware owners released in the summer.
Indeed. Yamaha officials have already said many times that it's only for Montage M owners

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Finally got to play the hardware yesterday. Neither impressed or unimpressed. Nature of polyAT keys though that felt less than and reminded me of 90s Ensoniq beds, which were so problematic then. TBF, they only had the 5 & 7 to play. Hopefully the full keyboard is superior. But nothing in it made me feel a need to upgrade from my M7.

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BBFG# wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 10:40 am Finally got to play the hardware yesterday. Neither impressed or unimpressed. Nature of polyAT keys though that felt less than and reminded me of 90s Ensoniq beds, which were so problematic then. TBF, they only had the 5 & 7 to play. Hopefully the full keyboard is superior. But nothing in it made me feel a need to upgrade from my M7.
The 5&7 doesn't have Poly AT only the 8 does

The key action on the 8 is the best I have ever played

The keys on the 5&7 are a very proven design that has been used hard on the road for many years by many people

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thats great, i think more plugins then not need. are there news when it come ? early is end, now we are near middle of the year
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Yoda Hello
Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

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IvyBirds wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 11:12 am
BBFG# wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 10:40 am Finally got to play the hardware yesterday. Neither impressed or unimpressed. Nature of polyAT keys though that felt less than and reminded me of 90s Ensoniq beds, which were so problematic then. TBF, they only had the 5 & 7 to play. Hopefully the full keyboard is superior. But nothing in it made me feel a need to upgrade from my M7.
The 5&7 doesn't have Poly AT only the 8 does

The key action on the 8 is the best I have ever played

The keys on the 5&7 are a very proven design that has been used hard on the road for many years by many people
Thanks for that information. I wondered why there weren't any patches to show that off. They still didn't feel anywhere as solid as the bed on my M7 though. I just wasn't impressed by the overall sound of the new board in comparison either. I would definitely be in the market for a VST of it as an addition. And I'm finally preparing my systems to take advantage of HALion 7.
Something else that's not being mentioned here is the strength of these Yamahas as hybrid controllers and IMO, this is the next evolution towards better integration.
On another note, I also played the Waldorf Quantum MkII and was very pleased with the sound and the new keybed. However, I found the the mod/pitch wheels to be overly stiff to the point of being annoying.

One other major thing I learned yesterday was that Sam Ash is under Chapter 11. :( Which is why this particular store had more top tier gear than usual. The prophecy of Tofler's Future Shock. We are in a "constant state of change". :shrug:

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BBFG# wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 1:20 pm
Thanks for that information. I wondered why there weren't any patches to show that off. They still didn't feel anywhere as solid as the bed on my M7 though
If you ever get the chance you should try the new Keybed in the Montage M 8. It's the PERFECT balance between 88 key piano action and synth action, it's an amazingly expressive experience even without the Poly AT engaged

The keybed on the 6 and 7 is the same as what's on the previous Montage and Motifs. It's not super sexy but it takes the abuse on the road like no other, it's a real road warrior

And yes they make incredible controllers

I have the first Montage ESP plugin, but for actual Montage Sounds I actually prefer just to go USB into my PC and offload all that CPU to the hardware

In do think for deeper editing of the AWM2 engine especially with your own sample content having that on a computer with hopefully a large nice GUI and will be awesome but I will still probably record and play from the Montage hardware just to save CPU cycles

The Montage hardware has an incredible amount of on card storage for user samples also and using Sample Robot you can very easily sample other instruments and VSTs and save them in the Montage format
Last edited by IvyBirds on Mon May 20, 2024 1:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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These keyboards are so bulky. Sure they have a ton of features, but I think they add size (front to back) just to make them look more impressive. Look at all the negative space above and below the controls. They end up taking up an entire desk they are so huge.

So it would be nice to get a more streamlined (less chonky) keyboard to use with the software.

Forget getting a 1:1 copy of the hardware engine in software outside of ownership of the keyboard. As I said last year in this thread -- Yamaha is a hardware manufacturer looking to sell hardware.

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IvyBirds wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 1:48 pm If you ever get the chance you should try the new Keybed in the Montage M 8. It's the PERFECT balance between 88 key piano action and synth action, it's an amazingly expressive experience even without the Poly AT engaged

The keybed on the 6 and 7 is the same as what's on the previous Montage and Motifs. It's not super sexy but it takes the abuse on the road like no other, it's a real road warrior

And yes they make incredible controllers

I have the first Montage ESP plugin, but for actual Montage Sounds I actually prefer just to go USB into my PC and offload all that CPU to the hardware

In do think for deeper editing of the AWM2 engine especially with your own sample content having that on a computer with hopefully a large nice GUI and will be awesome but I will still probably record and play from the Montage hardware just to save CPU cycles

The Montage hardware has an incredible amount of on card storage for user samples also and using Sample Robot you can very easily sample other instruments and VSTs and save them in the Montage format
I do own a Montage 7 and while they may say they're the same keybed on paper, I can definitely say they're not.
Ironically, I felt the 88 key version of that model was too heavy and stiff, so this balance you speak of would be more than welcomed on this version. I hopefully will run across one to sit down with soon. And while we're talking about it as a controller, it's also worth mentioning it as an interface too. Once we compartmentalize the value of these features, it's overall value is better realized. There are things where my personal tastes in controllers differ now and keep me from anything but seeing how the rest of the manufacturers respond in progressing that evolution.

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