No, it’s the VCA and VCF.
Favorite Cherry Audio Synths
- KVRAF
- 15417 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area
Zerocrossing Media
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
-
- KVRAF
- 2612 posts since 2 Jul, 2010
Ah, right you are! For Prophet VS and ESQ-1 that will be important.
I was distracted by mention of K1, which I think is full-digital?
- KVRAF
- 2566 posts since 21 Nov, 2015
I think its really a mixture of internal parts, design choices plus the available components at those times. The output stage certainly also has an impact on the overall sound and mostly the older ones are considered even 'warmer' sounding. There seems to be something magical about those old DX-7 DAC's, or the MPC 60, EPS and SP-1200. This also goes for the Synths of that Era for sure. Our most beloved Emulations of those might also be the ones which take all of those interacting variables into consideration.
You can be creative in any right place on Earth, and not only in the wealthiest cities. Bring the world feelings from everywhere, and not only feelings of capitalistic or jail environment.
― Aleksey Vaneev
― Aleksey Vaneev
- KVRAF
- 15417 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area
I have a theory that what you were hearing in those “magical” synths wasn’t as much their output stages, but was what they were getting plugged into. We drag an icon onto a virtual mixing board and all of the sudden, expect it to sound like the synth that went into an old mixing board, and from there, into a reel to reel and during mix down, back out to the mixer, with a myriad of processing happening to it. I’m reminded of an argument I got into about the System 1 hardware vs. the plugin. I had a 1m and I could not hear the slightest difference, yet some dude on Gearspace assured me that the hardware sounded a lot better. We went back and forth for a while, until he finally admitted that when he was hitting some old mixer pretty hard before it got to his computer. Mystery solved.El°HYM wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 5:31 pm I think its really a mixture of internal parts, design choices plus the available components at those times. The output stage certainly also has an impact on the overall sound and mostly the older ones are considered even 'warmer' sounding. There seems to be something magical about those old DX-7 DAC's, or the MPC 60, EPS and SP-1200. This also goes for the Synths of that Era for sure. Our most beloved Emulations of those might also be the ones which take all of those interacting variables into consideration.
If I were Arturia, I’d release an update that had their preamp emulation, or maybe some truncated version of them, as part of the synth. Not even in the effects area. Next to the output volume, maybe a little box to toggle it on and off. Maybe a drop down that selects one of the types. Release a free preset pack that uses it on all the new presets. Until that happens, it’s pretty easy to load up one of thousands of preamp emulations, and maybe even a tape emulation for good measure. Try it yourself. I use it on FM8 all the time, as I love the feature set, but not always the cold character. Works like a charm.
Zerocrossing Media
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
- KVRAF
- 2154 posts since 10 Apr, 2002 from Saint Germain en Laye, France
Do you mean overloading their preamp ?zerocrossing wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 1:48 pm
If I were Arturia, I’d release an update that had their preamp emulation, or maybe some truncated version of them, as part of the synth. Not even in the effects area. Next to the output volume, maybe a little box to toggle it on and off. Maybe a drop down that selects one of the types. Release a free preset pack that uses it on all the new presets. Until that happens, it’s pretty easy to load up one of thousands of preamp emulations, and maybe even a tape emulation for good measure. Try it yourself. I use it on FM8 all the time, as I love the feature set, but not always the cold character. Works like a charm.
-
- KVRAF
- 1537 posts since 10 Jul, 2018
But that's probably not what's happening in those Youtube videos I posted. (It's possible, but seems very unlikely.)zerocrossing wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 1:48 pm
I have a theory that what you were hearing in those “magical” synths wasn’t as much their output stages, but was what they were getting plugged into. We drag an icon onto a virtual mixing board and all of the sudden, expect it to sound like the synth that went into an old mixing board, and from there, into a reel to reel and during mix down, back out to the mixer, with a myriad of processing happening to it. I’m reminded of an argument I got into about the System 1 hardware vs. the plugin. I had a 1m and I could not hear the slightest difference, yet some dude on Gearspace assured me that the hardware sounded a lot better. We went back and forth for a while, until he finally admitted that when he was hitting some old mixer pretty hard before it got to his computer. Mystery solved.
While you can add saturation from other plugins, one big question is to what extent these synths were fine-tuned to sound good with the specific saturation provided by the hardware components. So finding saturation plugins and settings that work equally well (or better, in your estimation) could be a time-consuming challenge (though I'd suppose it could be sped up by AI matching and flexible saturation settings).
- KVRAF
- 17066 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California
Luna adds multiple stages of clipping/saturation automatically. Et Voilà, suddenly every synth sounds good.zerocrossing wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 1:48 pm I have a theory that what you were hearing in those “magical” synths wasn’t as much their output stages, but was what they were getting plugged into. We drag an icon onto a virtual mixing board and all of the sudden, expect it to sound like the synth that went into an old mixing board, and from there, into a reel to reel and during mix down, back out to the mixer, with a myriad of processing happening to it. I’m reminded of an argument I got into about the System 1 hardware vs. the plugin. I had a 1m and I could not hear the slightest difference, yet some dude on Gearspace assured me that the hardware sounded a lot better. We went back and forth for a while, until he finally admitted that when he was hitting some old mixer pretty hard before it got to his computer. Mystery solved.
- KVRAF
- 15417 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area
Yeah. Doesn’t have to be full in the red, just push it a bit. Use your ears.carrieres wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 2:56 pmDo you mean overloading their preamp ?zerocrossing wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 1:48 pm
If I were Arturia, I’d release an update that had their preamp emulation, or maybe some truncated version of them, as part of the synth. Not even in the effects area. Next to the output volume, maybe a little box to toggle it on and off. Maybe a drop down that selects one of the types. Release a free preset pack that uses it on all the new presets. Until that happens, it’s pretty easy to load up one of thousands of preamp emulations, and maybe even a tape emulation for good measure. Try it yourself. I use it on FM8 all the time, as I love the feature set, but not always the cold character. Works like a charm.
Zerocrossing Media
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
- KVRAF
- 15417 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area
I didn’t see your posts, but it’s honestly not that hard to get good results with any number of plugins that offer a bit of saturation and EQ. One of my favorites is Strymon’s Deco plugin. The tape saturation algorithm sounds great on everything.Ou_Tis wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 3:14 pmBut that's probably not what's happening in those Youtube videos I posted. (It's possible, but seems very unlikely.)zerocrossing wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 1:48 pm
I have a theory that what you were hearing in those “magical” synths wasn’t as much their output stages, but was what they were getting plugged into. We drag an icon onto a virtual mixing board and all of the sudden, expect it to sound like the synth that went into an old mixing board, and from there, into a reel to reel and during mix down, back out to the mixer, with a myriad of processing happening to it. I’m reminded of an argument I got into about the System 1 hardware vs. the plugin. I had a 1m and I could not hear the slightest difference, yet some dude on Gearspace assured me that the hardware sounded a lot better. We went back and forth for a while, until he finally admitted that when he was hitting some old mixer pretty hard before it got to his computer. Mystery solved.
While you can add saturation from other plugins, one big question is to what extent these synths were fine-tuned to sound good with the specific saturation provided by the hardware components. So finding saturation plugins and settings that work equally well (or better, in your estimation) could be a time-consuming challenge (though I'd suppose it could be sped up by AI matching and flexible saturation settings).
Zerocrossing Media
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
- KVRAF
- 15417 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area
I’m generally not a fan of this type of processing, unless it’s easy to bypass and configure.Uncle E wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 3:47 pmLuna adds multiple stages of clipping/saturation automatically. Et Voilà, suddenly every synth sounds good.zerocrossing wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 1:48 pm I have a theory that what you were hearing in those “magical” synths wasn’t as much their output stages, but was what they were getting plugged into. We drag an icon onto a virtual mixing board and all of the sudden, expect it to sound like the synth that went into an old mixing board, and from there, into a reel to reel and during mix down, back out to the mixer, with a myriad of processing happening to it. I’m reminded of an argument I got into about the System 1 hardware vs. the plugin. I had a 1m and I could not hear the slightest difference, yet some dude on Gearspace assured me that the hardware sounded a lot better. We went back and forth for a while, until he finally admitted that when he was hitting some old mixer pretty hard before it got to his computer. Mystery solved.
Zerocrossing Media
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
-
- addled muppet weed
- 107314 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
many years ago, i was asked to stand in on a friend's bands tour. i got to hear various reaktor (2008 era) synths, through large concert hall systems, and eff me, they sound very differentzerocrossing wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 1:48 pmI have a theory that what you were hearing in those “magical” synths wasn’t as much their output stages, but was what they were getting plugged into. We drag an icon onto a virtual mixing board and all of the sudden, expect it to sound like the synth that went into an old mixing board, and from there, into a reel to reel and during mix down, back out to the mixer, with a myriad of processing happening to it.El°HYM wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 5:31 pm I think its really a mixture of internal parts, design choices plus the available components at those times. The output stage certainly also has an impact on the overall sound and mostly the older ones are considered even 'warmer' sounding. There seems to be something magical about those old DX-7 DAC's, or the MPC 60, EPS and SP-1200. This also goes for the Synths of that Era for sure. Our most beloved Emulations of those might also be the ones which take all of those interacting variables into consideration.
![Surprised :o](./images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif)
- KVRAF
- 17066 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California
It's easy to bypass and configure. It only defaults to everything being on because I leave it that way.zerocrossing wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 4:30 pm I’m generally not a fan of this type of processing, unless it’s easy to bypass and configure.
-
- Suspended
- 531 posts since 24 Nov, 2023
For even more fun run two instances of FM8 one 5-10 cents sharp and the other 5-10 cents flat run one of them into one preamp and the other into a different preamp. Pan one hard left and the other hard right. You will get crazy wide stereo spread that super phatzerocrossing wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 1:48 pm If I were Arturia, I’d release an update that had their preamp emulation, or maybe some truncated version of them, as part of the synth. Not even in the effects area. Next to the output volume, maybe a little box to toggle it on and off. Maybe a drop down that selects one of the types. Release a free preset pack that uses it on all the new presets. Until that happens, it’s pretty easy to load up one of thousands of preamp emulations, and maybe even a tape emulation for good measure. Try it yourself. I use it on FM8 all the time, as I love the feature set, but not always the cold character. Works like a charm.
But since this is a thread on Cherry Audio Synths just set this all up inside of Voltage modulator using the VST host modules and set it up as a preset
- KVRAF
- 3007 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy
You don't get too much for a nickel or a dime these days...IvyBirds wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 12:26 am
For even more fun run two instances of FM8 one 5-10 cents sharp and the other 5-10 cents flat run one of them into one preamp and the other into a different preamp. Pan one hard left and the other hard right. You will get crazy wide stereo spread that super phat
So I think that you have to at least put in quarter
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
No auto tune...
-
- Suspended
- 531 posts since 24 Nov, 2023
Actually 25 cents would be a difference of 50 cents or half a semintone and wouldn't sound very gooddigitalboytn wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 3:19 amYou don't get too much for a nickel or a dime these days...IvyBirds wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 12:26 am
For even more fun run two instances of FM8 one 5-10 cents sharp and the other 5-10 cents flat run one of them into one preamp and the other into a different preamp. Pan one hard left and the other hard right. You will get crazy wide stereo spread that super phat
So I think that you have to at least put in quarter![]()
But maybe you don't understand what a cent means in music theory
Hint it's a unit of measure between two semitones which in case you don't know refers to notes on the keyboard. There are 100 such units if measure which is why they are called cents. Cent in English being from French cent, Italian cento, or Latin centum meaning "hundred"
FM8 is based on the DX7. Yamaha has a rack unit called the TX816 which stacked up to 8 separately DX7 modules together in one rack. This would mimic stacking 2 of them as recommended by Yamaha in the user manual