Sad state of Native Instruments

[dayjob]

The last two posts - this is all consistent with Kontakt X being developed. Komplete 15 might be considerably more interesting.

perhaps. also, might be considered a desperate gamble.

"here's an idea. we want you to put reaktor core inside kontakt"

[noiseboyuk]

The last two posts - this is all consistent with Kontakt X being developed. Komplete 15 might be considerably more interesting.

perhaps. also, might be considered a desperate gamble.

"here's an idea. we want you to put reaktor core inside kontakt"

I don't know about the Core thing. That would be cool, but I don't really know how likely that is, it might be too much baggage. What is likely is some kind of synthesis in Kontakt X.

[dayjob]

The last two posts - this is all consistent with Kontakt X being developed. Komplete 15 might be considerably more interesting.

perhaps. also, might be considered a desperate gamble.

"here's an idea. we want you to put reaktor core inside kontakt"

I don't know about the Core thing. That would be cool, but I don't really know how likely that is, it might be too much baggage. What is likely is some kind of synthesis in Kontakt X.

yeah.. it's overdue for that. big job to add it all though.. i guess maybe some stuff is half way there w/the interfaces people make for their instruments but all the back end might be a lot of bloat to the system. i wonder if they could pull it off in a good way. devs doing a good job is one thing.. the execs/marketing people weighing in is another...

as w/all things.. we'll see!

[digitalboytn]

It sounds like everyone is talking themselves into Kontak X

[Ficciones]

Just a note - the install file for Sync Modular, which is essentially Core before it got added to Reaktor, is 1.3 megabytes.

That covers the language, the GUI, the runtime, the on-the-fly compiler. Core is pretty lightweight, considering you can code DSP from scratch in it, make zero delay filters, envelopes, do convolution, etc.

[BBFG#]

It sounds like everyone is talking themselves into Kontak X

Then they couldn't claim to be victims as they would consent as volunteers.

And the real plug-in name would be "Konewe N2". Because they love dominating their willing subs.

[machinesworking]

Sure, Kontakt is likely to get an upgrade, mostly because Kontakt 7 sucks ass. Why do any of you expect more than some mediocre barely competing synth oscillators thrown into Kontakt 8? Kontakt already does synthesis, there are hundreds of synths made in Kontakt right now.

I think the direction NI are going in couldn't be more clear from what they did in Kontakt 7, they hid the internal browser and editor in favor of a Komplete Kontrol style front end. The Future of Sound is about presets, sample packs, and the ROMpler style PLAY series. The market for NI is also clear, young producers just getting into the game and TV composers needing a massive library of readily available sounds to pump out 30 minutes of music every week.

Nothing about the direction says they're worried that people are leaving for Falcon etc. the obvious direction is not towards synth tweakers, but preset players who feal like they tweaked a PLAY ROMpler enough to call it their own.

[dayjob]

Sure, Kontakt is likely to get an upgrade, mostly because Kontakt 7 sucks ass. Why do any of you expect more than some mediocre barely competing synth oscillators thrown into Kontakt 8? Kontakt already does synthesis, there are hundreds of synths made in Kontakt right now.

I think the direction NI are going in couldn't be more clear from what they did in Kontakt 7, they hid the internal browser and editor in favor of a Komplete Kontrol style front end. The Future of Sound is about presets, sample packs, and the ROMpler style PLAY series. The market for NI is also clear, young producers just getting into the game and TV composers needing a massive library of readily available sounds to pump out 30 minutes of music every week.

Nothing about the direction says they're worried that people are leaving for Falcon etc. the obvious direction is not towards synth tweakers, but preset players who feal like they tweaked a PLAY ROMpler enough to call it their own.

yeah... sample libraries are the only thing they seem to add.. other than squeaking out an update here and there. it's a top down company.. not driven by developers wanting to do interesting things but by accountants and execs wanting to increase profits and shareholder happiness. squeeze the asset!

[noiseboyuk]

Sure, Kontakt is likely to get an upgrade, mostly because Kontakt 7 sucks ass. Why do any of you expect more than some mediocre barely competing synth oscillators thrown into Kontakt 8? Kontakt already does synthesis, there are hundreds of synths made in Kontakt right now.

I think the direction NI are going in couldn't be more clear from what they did in Kontakt 7, they hid the internal browser and editor in favor of a Komplete Kontrol style front end. The Future of Sound is about presets, sample packs, and the ROMpler style PLAY series. The market for NI is also clear, young producers just getting into the game and TV composers needing a massive library of readily available sounds to pump out 30 minutes of music every week.

Nothing about the direction says they're worried that people are leaving for Falcon etc. the obvious direction is not towards synth tweakers, but preset players who feal like they tweaked a PLAY ROMpler enough to call it their own.

I think you've missed the point of this. As I see it, NI are totally unfussed about Falcon and Halion being competitors. However they wanted a new platform for their synths since Reaktor was taking up too much time and resources to keep ticking over.

Exactly like Kontakt, in fact. Both were riddled with technical debt. So that's why it makes sense not to just expand Kontakt as it is, but start again with an engine rewritten from the ground up. It will likely be able to load recent nkis but it doesn't need to be compatible back to K1. (it's not impossible that it won't, in fact, be able to load any existing nkis at all, that it will be a totally new format, like Massive X was to Massive).

There's not hundreds of true VI synths in Kontakt right now. There's synths based on samples, but pretty much that's it - I don't know of any credible synths in the way Reaktor had credible synths. And giving some kind of real synthesis to their shiny new sampler will be the cost-effective way to produce new synths ongoing now that Reaktor is gone.

IMO even Massive X was a stepping stone. It showed they still want to make synths, but MX showed was too expensive to build from the ground up every time.

[machinesworking]

I think you've missed the point of this. As I see it, NI are totally unfussed about Falcon and Halion being competitors. However they wanted a new platform for their synths since Reaktor was taking up too much time and resources to keep ticking over.

Here's the deal though, that right there is speculation. We know they aren't currently developing Reaktor, we do not know the reasons. I'm firmly on the side of "Reaktor and Kontakt are being used to develop more PLAY instruments. So nothing amazing will happen with them for quite some time" camp. Not in the "Reaktor is dead so Kontakt will now become NI's development environment" camp.

There's not hundreds of true VI synths in Kontakt right now. There's synths based on samples, but pretty much that's it - I don't know of any credible synths in the way Reaktor had credible synths. And giving some kind of real synthesis to their shiny new sampler will be the cost-effective way to produce new synths ongoing now that Reaktor is gone.

To get into the nitty gritty, there's nothing that special about subtractive synthesis, Wavetable synths are popular for a reason, and there are plenty of Kontkakt Wavetable style synths.

IMO even Massive X was a stepping stone. It showed they still want to make synths, but MX showed was too expensive to build from the ground up every time.

Yep, but in the end I'm betting PLAY instruments based on Kontakt or Reaktor under the hood are what we see going forward.

I don't think NI are rolling Reaktor tech into Kontakt, just don't see it, most of the issues with older plugins involve the GUI, and if they attach a modern PLAY series GUI scheme to either engine, then they solve that without having to rebuild the Reaktor GUI environment. I'm more cynical about it, there will be no real changes to Reaktor, and Kontakt will get cosmetic ones.

[noiseboyuk]

I'm firmly on the side of "Reaktor and Kontakt are being used to develop more PLAY instruments. So nothing amazing will happen with them for quite some time" camp.

Eh? Reaktor has never been used to develop Play instruments? I'm not sure why you're conflating the two.

Again, Reaktor isn't mentioned in any advanced plans. It's EOL. But - one more time - in sharp contrast they have this to say about Kontakt:

Later this year, we’ll significantly expand what's possible in Kontakt, our flagship instrument platform. We're excited about the new sonic opportunities this will enable for both instrument builders and music producers.

https://community.native-instruments.co ... cer#latest

No idea how any of that squares with "I'm betting PLAY instruments based on Kontakt or Reaktor under the hood are what we see going forward". But you are right in that it IS all speculation.

[Scoops]

I remember when many of the top execs from Motorola took jobs at Moto's competition.
Many other companies, like Google, came in, chewed em up, and spit em out.
Moto is just a shell of what it used to be.

Sound familiar?

Greetings once again

I said this in the past, and allow me too say it again.

All speculation on NI is just that, myself included.

But my bet is no Reaktor, No Kontakt X.

They can't get a friking installer right.
YMMV

[machinesworking]

Eh? Reaktor has never been used to develop Play instruments? I'm not sure why you're conflating the two.

Again, Reaktor isn't mentioned in any advanced plans. It's EOL.

I don't think Reaktor is EOL because they aren't developing the end user interface part of it. I realize most of you have come to that conclusion from various statements on the NI forums, but IMO you're all reading too much into it. Too many Reaktor based instruments in their catalog, including pulling some back into Reaktor to think it's EOL. It's not being developed for end users, sure. So I guess I should have been clear, they have developed instruments based on Reaktor needing the Reaktor player, (Monark etc.), recently the PLAY series are 100% glorified Kontakt Romplers, and I see no reason to assume this will change.

But - one more time - in sharp contrast they have this to say about Kontakt:

Later this year, we’ll significantly expand what's possible in Kontakt, our flagship instrument platform. We're excited about the new sonic opportunities this will enable for both instrument builders and music producers.

https://community.native-instruments.co ... cer#latest

No idea how any of that squares with "I'm betting PLAY instruments based on Kontakt or Reaktor under the hood are what we see going forward". But you are right in that it IS all speculation.

Here's how it squares, I've seen them sell minor improvements as amazing innovative products in the past, I see no reason to get hyped for Kontakt 8, and the road towards everything basically being a Komplete Kontrol style preset is clear. There's no actual indication otherwise. Personally I'm OK with Kontakt but most people hate it as a sampler, use the various other samplers out there, and mostly stick with the libraries in Kontakt. Sample library developers seem to like it, but at some point they get sick of the NI tax and make their own interfaces, EW Opus, Spitfire, Cinesamples Museo etc. etc. Mark my words here, they will absolutely not release Kontakt 8 and have it be some game changing sampler workstation, they will barely catch up to Falcon, and make it easier for third party developers to make PLAY style "instruments".

I've owned Komplete since Version 2, owned Kore, Maschine, Rig Kontrol etc. I skipped Komplete keyboards v1 but I own an s88 MKII. I've watched their business moves for 20 odd years now, nothing new is happening. They will do enough to keep us talking about them, but they will burn some bridges.

[digitalboytn]

It will be subscription only and it will be called Kontrakt X and the subscribers will be Kontraktors

[seafire]

Sub Kontraktorz