How to find that last 10-15% 'commercial' sound fully ITB?

[BertKoor]

I'd be surprised if any commercial release invested by a legit label (meaning a label that is not John Doe's who happens to be the guitarist in the only band on the "label") was recorded completely ITB.

I give you this from the collective knowledge:

• Ricky Martin - Livin' la Vida Loca
• Released: March 27, 1999
• Label: Columbia
• Producer: Desmond Child

Knowledge Drop: Ricky Martin’s “Livin La Vida Loca” Is The First No. 1 Hit Made Entirely In Pro Tools
Multiplatinum producer Desmond Child recently sat down with Billboard to dish on Ricky Martin’s 1999 smash hit “Livin’ La Vida Loca,” where he explained how it became the first No. 1 song completely recorded in Pro Tools when it topped the Hot 100 chart 20 years ago this week.

“Right at that time they had started developing Pro Tools,” he told the magazine, “and I went all in. We said, ‘We’re going to make records that are completely in the box.’ Everybody was telling me I was crazy.”

What excuse are you making up to disqualify this?
Or now suddenly you genuinely are 'surprised' ?

[whyterabbyt]

Can we stop here please?

Absolutely. Havent I just said you can stop any time you want?

Okay. Let this be your last post on the matter, absolutely dont reply. Then we'll have stopped here.

What more do you want from me? Please dont answer that.

Are you just playing games?

Seems more like you dont actually want to stop, you just want to get the last question and a few ad hominems in?

[EfreetiSultan]

Can we stop here please?

Absolutely. Havent I just said you can stop any time you want?

Okay. Let this be your last post on the matter, absolutely dont reply. Then we'll have stopped here.

What more do you want from me? Please dont answer that.

Are you just playing games?

Seems more like you dont actually want to stop, you just want to get the last question and a few ad hominems in?

Damn. You really can't help yourself. I asked you nicely. I gave you the win. I conceded. Still that's not enough for you. You really are something special. This will be the last time I acknowledge you. You are an energy thief and I will not participate in your games no more.
Usually I feel it's common curtesy to reply to each and every reply I get... But for you I will make an exception.

And I haven't made a single ad hominem. Not one. Tbh I'm quite worried about you since I've already given you everything you desire and still you won't let it go.. That's concerning... Oh well.

[whyterabbyt]

Usually I feel it's common curtesy to reply to each and every reply I get... But for you I will make an exception.

Clearly you have an issue with other people extending the same 'courtesy'.

Okay. Let this be your last post on the matter, absolutely dont reply. Then we'll have stopped here.

[VOODOO U]

Its been done and continues to be done. See above for the grammy winning engineer... for an album done in a bedroom.

Ok. It was done in a bedroom. Doesn't mean it was done ITB.

Check out https://sterling-sound.com/engineer/chris-gehringer/
Mastering engineer who works ITB.

Ok, he masters ITB. Doesn't mean the aongs were recorded and mixed ITB.

Sophisticated debating skills there, well done.

Thanks. Comes with practice and experience.

Please feel free to prove that one can create a professional label ready recording without sufficient practice or experience

I never said one can create a pro label ready recording without sufficient practice and experience.

Dont even worry abut the ITB thing because I didnt actually assert that bit, that's just yet another lie on your part. Something you're doing more frequently as you go on, I notice

Well stupid, the OP clearly stated:

I produce and mix 100% ITB (no outboard gear, no instruments out except for mic).

I'm content as can be with the basics - arrangement, mixing, balance, EQ, compression, etc...HOWEVER I'm finding that my songs overall have more of the forward 'exposed' naked sound of a 'home' studio production and less of the polished more 'receded' rounded clarity of commercial tracks

I've found the below recently helped get me a lot closer to that 'commercial' sound I'm talking about - (more specifically the late 90s and early 2000's sound + not a huge fan of in your face highly compressed brightness you often hear with most recent radio pop)
- stereo imaging
- meticulous compression to remove pokeyness and smooth out elements
(indivudal tracks and mix bus )
- touch of reverb on the mixbus
- EQ mixbus especially scooping mids where relevant
- Rear bus technique (parallel compression of sorts ala Andrew Scheps)

BUT I still feel like im not quite there yet!
I'm very aware that the actual recording\ tracking of ORGANIC instruments is a huge part of this (given that you can adjust mic placement to create tasteful airy distance between the instrument\ vocalist and the mic and perhaps this is part of the difference but does anyone have any tips on how to achieve\ at least provide the 'illusion' of this quality and the above fully ITB

And you replied:

practice and experience

So there you go. You are asserting one can get a polished commercial track entirely 100% ITB with "practice and experience".
Consider me a liar all you want.

Bullshit. Now you are moving the goalposts.

Show me where I specifically stated you can get a pro commercial sounding recording using only analog gear.

The simple fact, that has already been said over and over, but you refuse to listen is this: skill

I firmly believe in "work with what you got". It's what I do. Yes, skills can develop from that, yes practice can indeed bring experience.
But I'm not going to be delusional thinking I can compete with the majors doing it all ITB. If you think it's lack of skills then I'm all ears. Tell us what you do, what skills you have, to produce recordings entirey 100% ITB that can compete with the majors. **Pro sounding commercial recordings**. Prove me wrong NOT with youtube videos or anything other than your own work and experience. If you can't do that, then I've got nothing to gain or learn.
In the meantime, I aim for perfection with what I got, accept excellence. It may not be commercial or pro but I'm fine with that. Not having pro commercial recordings doesn't mean not having success.

tools. matter. not

Well ok then! Show us what "skills" you got! Make a pro commercial rock song entirely ITB. Make a pro commercial pop song entirely ITB. Make a pro commercial dance tune entirely ITB. Make a pro commercial metal song entirely ITB. Post up some links and let's A/B it against major releases.
I said it before and I'll say it again, prove me wrong and I'll be more than happy with the defeat. Why? Because it's good news that it can be done 100% ITB. It would save me money.

What excuse are you making up to disqualify this?
Or now suddenly you genuinely are 'surprised

My god you people are stupid. Desmond saying it was entirley ITB is obviously incorrect since HE RECORDED A VOCALIST.
How the f**k do you think they got Ricky's singing into the damn DAW?
There's guitars and bass in the song. Are you going to tell me they used simulation plugins for that? Samples?
What about the horns? If those are synth horns, ok...did they use One Ping Only?
Also, don't feed me bullshit that they didn't use hardware units for the dynamics and EQing.
There's also no telling if they mixed and mastered all ITB and I'm going to say they didn't.
Stop posting bullshit examples. If you want to prove me wrong, post up your own work and show everybody what skills you have making a pro commercial recording, all in the f**king box.

[vurt]

[BertKoor]

Slightly move that goalpost:
All producers use monitoring speakers and/or headphones, which are analog devices. Hence it is impossible to produce completely ITB.

QED

[donkey tugger]

This 'box' appears to be of variable size.

[vurt]

Slightly move that goalpost:
All producers use monitoring speakers and/or headphones, which are analog devices. Hence it is impossible to produce completely ITB.

QED

i knew he was going to do exactly the weasel move he pulled. it was too obvious.

but it does lead us now, to the fact mixing can be done itb, and earlier it was claimed that if the track had been done itb additional processing would make it good enough.

analog music + digital processing = commercial
digital music + analog processing = commercial
but
digital music + digital processing ≠ commercial
?

[imrae]

Slightly move that goalpost:
All producers use monitoring speakers and/or headphones, which are analog devices. Hence it is impossible to produce completely ITB.

QED

Hmm, I don't imagine we are very far away from bots streaming AI-produced records to manipulate charts. There could be a "hit" record where any analogue playback was largely incidental.

[VOODOO U]

So you guys actually believe that ricky's vocals and the instrumentation were recorded direct into the interface.
Yeah. Sure. A major artist siged to a major label and they did not use hardware processors. They did not utilize a billion dollar mixing channel. No way.
They just plugged ole ricky direct into the interface. Riiiiiiight.

[EfreetiSultan]

Slightly move that goalpost:
All producers use monitoring speakers and/or headphones, which are analog devices. Hence it is impossible to produce completely ITB.

QED

i knew he was going to do exactly the weasel move he pulled. it was too obvious.

but it does lead us now, to the fact mixing can be done itb, and earlier it was claimed that if the track had been done itb additional processing would make it good enough.

analog music + digital processing = commercial
digital music + analog processing = commercial
but
digital music + digital processing ≠ commercial
?

Just because people are unwilling to play certain games does not make them weasels and "pulling moves".
You wanna know what I've learned in the very short time I've been here? You guys are set in your ways. It's almost like some sort of echo chamber. And when someone comes with something outside of that chamber, it gets attacked by the residents. Shunned. Pointed at. Called names. This is quite a hostile place won't you agree. At least for new comers.

[EfreetiSultan]

So you guys actually believe that ricky's vocals and the instrumentation were recorded direct into the interface.
Yeah. Sure. A major artist siged to a major label and they did not use hardware processors. They did not utilize a billion dollar mixing channel. No way.
They just plugged ole ricky direct into the interface. Riiiiiiight.

I'm starting to believe this place is more like a cult than open and free discussion. Sadly.

[vurt]

Slightly move that goalpost:
All producers use monitoring speakers and/or headphones, which are analog devices. Hence it is impossible to produce completely ITB.

QED

i knew he was going to do exactly the weasel move he pulled. it was too obvious.

but it does lead us now, to the fact mixing can be done itb, and earlier it was claimed that if the track had been done itb additional processing would make it good enough.

analog music + digital processing = commercial
digital music + analog processing = commercial
but
digital music + digital processing ≠ commercial
?

Just because people are unwilling to play certain games does not make them weasels and "pulling moves".

when people continually move goalposts, they are pulling moves.

[EfreetiSultan]

Slightly move that goalpost:
All producers use monitoring speakers and/or headphones, which are analog devices. Hence it is impossible to produce completely ITB.

QED

i knew he was going to do exactly the weasel move he pulled. it was too obvious.

but it does lead us now, to the fact mixing can be done itb, and earlier it was claimed that if the track had been done itb additional processing would make it good enough.

analog music + digital processing = commercial
digital music + analog processing = commercial
but
digital music + digital processing ≠ commercial
?

Just because people are unwilling to play certain games does not make them weasels and "pulling moves".

when people continually move goalposts, they are pulling moves.

Moving goalposts, ad hominem, appeal to authority, confirmation bias, straw men, Bla bla bla. How about just talking about it instead of using mechanical argumentative fallacies and tactics?