Compression question for 13

[irpacynot]

Can you sidechain to a submix now, or no?

[pough]

Do you mean sidechain from outside a Submix to a track within a Submix or sidechain from a track within one Submix to a track within another Submix or sidechain from outside a Submix to a Submix parent track or sidechain from a track within a Submix to its own parent Submix track or...?

Was one or some or all of those not possible before?

Is there something stopping you from trying?

[irpacynot]

...or sidechain from outside a Submix to a Submix parent track or sidechain from a track within a Submix to its own parent Submix track or...?

...

Is there something stopping you from trying?

Either of those, and I just never saw an option when trying.

[pough]

Either of those, and I just never saw an option when trying.

It'd sure be nice to get more details from you because as far as I know, it has never not worked, but I don't know what your OS is, or your Waveform version is, or which plugins you tried with, or how you have them set up. I mean, I have tested something and it works fine, but what are the chances I am trying to do the same thing you are trying to do? Pretty small, considering it works fine for me - as always - and has... never worked for you? Worked for you in the past but not the present? Worked outside of Submixes but not within Submixes?

Seriously, if you are asking people to help you, please put a little effort into it. Which plugins have you tried to use? There are plugins out there that are described specifically as sidechain plugins that don't have the ability to sidechain. Plugins that are sandboxed can't sidechain.

[irpacynot]

...

Seriously, if you are asking people to help you, please put a little effort into it. ...

Wow...

[pough]

Yeah. Still no answers to questions, so here's my final response to you: I did something and it worked. I won't tell you what I did or how I got it to work.

[Watchful]

Tony,

Can you describe what it is you're trying to do, and we can try to give you some step-by-steps?

Your original question allows for a ton of interpretations.

[irpacynot]

Tony,

Can you describe what it is you're trying to do, and we can try to give you some step-by-steps?

Your original question allows for a ton of interpretations.

Can you sidechain to a submix now, or no?

Okay, so I take two guitars and pack them into a submix, usually so I can apply mid/side EQ and perhaps one or two other plugins.

Okay, so now, say, I name that submix guitars. Now I have some shakers that are, of course, not part of that submix. But, I want to compress the shakers to the guitars submix (just the basic Waveform compressor -- nothing fancy. But I've never found the option to do so. When I select sidechain, it shows me individual tracks I can sidechain to, but not the submix.

[Watchful]

Thanks--that's super-helpful because I was thinking of something else entirely.

The sad, short answer is no: for some reason, Waveform (v13) sees the individual tracks, but doesn't seem to understand you could want to sidechain the entire submix...which is bad, because you're right: you would want your shakers to duck under both the guitars.

This isn't an issue with the compressor: it's Waveform, because no other compressor will let you do it, either. It's weird I've never noticed this, before.

Worse, I tried to see if there's a workaround with sends and returns, or routing the audio creatively...same issue. Waveform doesn't recognize a submix as a valid, mixed single channel.

About the only thing you could do, and you'll see this isn't the same thing, is to put two copies of the compressor on the shaker track--one sidechained to the first guitar and the second sidechained to the second guitar.

"But wait," you're likely saying, "That's not the same thing at all. While each compressor can react to the individual guitars, it means the compressors aren't listening to any of the combined processing I did on the submix...which is important."

And you'd be right! So that's not really a fix at all.

Does anyone know a reason why this feature wouldn't have been included? Seems weird to me.

[dysjoint]

This is why I never really understood submixes for my workflow. I make my own buses by editing track outputs, and you can definitely use those for side chaining

[fde101]

If you place an aux send on the submit and a corresponding return on a normal track created for the purpose, you can use that track as the side chain source.

There is also the option of routing it through an FX rack, but that is a bit more complicated to set up - may be needed if you are running out of aux busses...

[irpacynot]

...About the only thing you could do, and you'll see this isn't the same thing, is to put two copies of the compressor on the shaker track--one sidechained to the first guitar and the second sidechained to the second guitar.

...

Yeah, I kinda been doing similar workarounds like that, but yeah, that was exactly what I was referring to. And I apologize for being confusing. I think perhaps my lack of knowledge regarding a lot of the options available are the reason I thought I was being clear. Anyway, I appreciate the confirmation. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. It wouldn't be the first time.

If you place an aux send on the submit and a corresponding return on a normal track created for the purpose, you can use that track as the side chain source.

There is also the option of routing it through an FX rack, but that is a bit more complicated to set up - may be needed if you are running out of aux busses...

That sounds really cool, and perhaps an easy fix. So, how would that work exactly? Do I just put a return on an empty track that would connect to the submix via the submix send, and then compress/sidechain to the empty track?

If you place an aux send on the submit and a corresponding return on a normal track created for the purpose, you can use that track as the side chain source.

There is also the option of routing it through an FX rack, but that is a bit more complicated to set up - may be needed if you are running out of aux busses...

Yeah, you're preaching to the choir. I am still afraid to delve into a lot of the available parameters. It's awesome that so much is available in this DAW, in such a precise way, but even after a year or so, I still feel like I'm getting my feet wet. Trying to master some of the more simple elements.

[fde101]

That sounds really cool, and perhaps an easy fix. So, how would that work exactly? Do I just put a return on an empty track that would connect to the submix via the submix send, and then compress/sidechain to the empty track?

yes

[irpacynot]

That sounds really cool, and perhaps an easy fix. So, how would that work exactly? Do I just put a return on an empty track that would connect to the submix via the submix send, and then compress/sidechain to the empty track?

yes

Thanks