Digital Performer users, I want you to convince me to switch to your DAW.

[machinesworking]

Maybe you can answer a question for me. I'm using Reason as my main DAW, but I'm looking at DP to perhaps add it to my studio setup (for various reasons I won't go into here). In Reason, blocks are an important part of my composing workflow, and the chunks in DP is the only alternative that can do what blocks do (although, chunks can obviously do a lot more than blocks in Reason).

It really depends on how you work, From what I understand Blocks are a bit like encapsulated parts of songs? i.e. verse, chorus, break etc. all easily moved around? Chunks are very different than that, more like completely separate songs, but, you can use Chunks to do this, it has some limitations, but in general it works. You would want to put virtual instruments and aux FX in the Virtual Rack, otherwise you're copying them each time you drag one into another etc.

I just watched the latest webinar where a user goes over using Chunks to load entire Clips with completely new Session clips ands V-Racks that keep the instruments the same for all of them etc.

In Reason, I have setup audio output routing, with separate monitoring corrections (using SonarWorks) for each routing. This is done by utilizing the multi outputs of my Scarlett 18i20, and this gives me nice monitor output control without the need of a hardware monitor controller.

So, here's the question: is it possible in DP to setup something similar?

Yeah this shouldn't be a problem. If I'm understanding what you want to do.

[crimsonwarlock]

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my questions.

It really depends on how you work, From what I understand Blocks are a bit like encapsulated parts of songs? i.e. verse, chorus, break etc. all easily moved around? Chunks are very different than that, more like completely separate songs, but, you can use Chunks to do this, it has some limitations, but in general it works. You would want to put virtual instruments and aux FX in the Virtual Rack, otherwise you're copying them each time you drag one into another etc.

The important things that blocks do is making arrangements in the song-view very flexible. But even more importantly, you can then have clips "paint over" the blocks, or parts of a block, in the song-view.
I've been watching several DP webinars, and I'm reading through the user-manual, and it appears that a somewhat similar workflow is possible with chunks. The differences are actually in favor of chunks, as you can have several chunks play in parallel, whereas blocks only let you play either the block content or the overlapping song-content.

As for the V-Racks, that paradigm is actually somewhat similar to how Reason works, as in that there is no one-to-one relation between sequencer tracks, mixer channels, and instruments/FX. Which of course makes things crazy flexible when you understand the possibilities. V-Racks and chunks are the two things that made me start to look at DP.

In Reason, I have setup audio output routing, with separate monitoring corrections (using SonarWorks) for each routing. This is done by utilizing the multi outputs of my Scarlett 18i20, and this gives me nice monitor output control without the need of a hardware monitor controller.

So, here's the question: is it possible in DP to setup something similar?

Yeah this shouldn't be a problem. If I'm understanding what you want to do.

I couldn't find clear information about the routing possibilities in DP (yet), but if I can have a master bus going into several output buses that each output to a specific hardware output on my audio interface, that would cover most of it. If I can then put the monitoring correction plugins on each output channel, I'm there.

Another thing I couldn't find yet, is a possibility to name buses. I see explanations about buses, talking about choosing an unused bus when needed. That implies there's a limited amount of buses available, am I right? In Reason, a bus is simply a mixer channel that receives inputs from other channels, and that means you can have as many buses as you need/want, and they can be nested to any level (buses going into buses going into other buses).

[machinesworking]

Another thing I couldn't find yet, is a possibility to name buses. I see explanations about buses, talking about choosing an unused bus when needed. That implies there's a limited amount of buses available, am I right? In Reason, a bus is simply a mixer channel that receives inputs from other channels, and that means you can have as many buses as you need/want, and they can be nested to any level (buses going into buses going into other buses).

Busses are absolutely nameable. I have a template with all outboard gear busses named. Busses in DP are essentially routing, (VI's and outboard gear are their own thing), so in order to use an aux track or stem sub mix, you assign a bus to it, so I have the basic busses already named in a template; reverb, FX, guitar, Xpander, Percussion, vocals etc. DP lets you name the amount of busses per project, probably a leftover from it's long history, (when CPU was a concern), but I just asked for 700 busses and it provided them without flinching.

[crimsonwarlock]

Busses are absolutely nameable. I have a template with all outboard gear busses named. Busses in DP are essentially routing, (VI's and outboard gear are their own thing), so in order to use an aux track or stem sub mix, you assign a bus to it, so I have the basic busses already named in a template; reverb, FX, guitar, Xpander, Percussion, vocals etc. DP lets you name the amount of busses per project, probably a leftover from it's long history, (when CPU was a concern), but I just asked for 700 busses and it provided them without flinching.

I have just installed the demo, and found indeed I can set the number of buses. Haven't found where I can name them, though. It does show how incredibly easy these kinds of things are in Reason, where you can spawn new buses and parallel channels directly from any mixer channel.

The complexity of the DP workspace is daunting, but at the same time hints the more complex possibilities. I've used Reaper as my primary DAW for over a decade, so this is not a major issue. However, while inserting a virtual instrument and playing it directly over MIDI is simple in Reason (and even in Reaper), I didn't see right away how to do that in DP. I read that there are now mixed channels that can receive MIDI and have audio output with a plugin instrument, but I couldn't find how to instantiate such channels (or sequences or whatever).

[fdco]

You can name buses in the Bundle Editor - ⇧U by default

As for the instrument track :
Project > Add Track > Instrument Track > pick your instrument here.

Ideally, deselect Multi Record, so any MIDI input goes to the track.

[Sergievsky]

Another plus for DP, & the main reason I can’t leave it, is the wait-for-note feature. Stupidly simple, yet mind-boggingly absent from most DAWs. You press Record, & it won’t start recording until you play your synth. That option to not have to have a count-in before it records is crucial for me. Waiting for the damn countoff EVERY SINGLE TIME is annoying…maybe not at first, or just on a few tracks…but what if your song is say 80 tracks? At 62bpm? You must wait 80 times for that slow countoff before recording (I’d assume you already have a feel for the tempo after a bit). And oh, do you sequence from beginning to end in one go per track, without making a mistake? Need to punch in at some point? Gotta wait for that count-off, so now 80 becomes 160…need to punch-in more than once? Keep multiplying…so much time wasted.

There are more plusses, & @machinesworking covered a lot of it. There are even more, & I love the fact that every update there’s little things that they add that improve your workflow, things that were obvious user suggestions just by the way it makes you go “cool that I can do that now!”, & that they always work on stability. It isn’t perfect (what DAW is?), & it does get frustrating at times (like all DAWs), but they’ve modernized it enough that it doesn’t have to be oldschool.. you can do anything with it, as long as you learn it. I’m too lazy & busy to REALLY learn it, so I don’t even know half of it, yet I can still do everything I need to do & then some. Wait-For-Note…try THAT with your DAW ( I think PT has it? I’d like to know which other ones)

[magog]

The important things that blocks do is making arrangements in the song-view very flexible. But even more importantly, you can then have clips "paint over" the blocks, or parts of a block, in the song-view.
I've been watching several DP webinars, and I'm reading through the user-manual, and it appears that a somewhat similar workflow is possible with chunks. The differences are actually in favor of chunks, as you can have several chunks play in parallel, whereas blocks only let you play either the block content or the overlapping song-content.

A few years ago, I tried to use DP's chunks like this - to write songs composed of multiple independent sequences (e.g. a verse chunk, a chorus chunk, etc).

The limitations in DP were:

• The song window is hard to use. For instance:
  • the x-axis was not to scale
  • during song playback there was no visible playhead.
  • Managing overlaps between chunks required manual calculation.
  • Moving one chunk around on the timeline often involved rebuilding the song. I had to keep paper notes to keep track of where each chunk was on the song's timeline.
• No automation for shared instruments in the v-rack (only option was to automate MIDI CC)
• Mixing was a challenge. I don't mean doing the final mix, but even keeping levels somewhat consistent from one chunk to the next was difficult. Flattening a song into a new sequence of its own didn't retain VCA information.

I may have some of that wrong. This was a few years ago, using DP 10. I'm not sure if DP 11 brought an improved song window or not. I know they improved the chunks list.

Doing this kind of modular workflow has been a (pipe) dream of mine for awhile now. If anybody knows how to do this (in DP or any other DAW), I'd love to learn how!

I tried for awhile to accomplish a similar kind of workflow in Logic with its "classic" arrangement folders. I did find that it worked better for me than DP's chunks, but I stopped using this approach because I found that it was hard to manage automation for the whole timeline and the individual sections.

Reaper also seemed promising for this kind of workflow, but I couldn't find a reliable way to have multiple sub-projects share the same instruments.

[magog]

I just watched the latest webinar where a user goes over using Chunks to load entire Clips with completely new Session clips ands V-Racks that keep the instruments the same for all of them etc.

Ooh this sounds really interesting - is this online anywhere?

[pinki]

Just make sure to demo it for one thing only- stability. I used it for years before it turned into what others have been saying here...a crashfest. I miss it, but Logic has replaced all that it could do (it's my system/set up/ram/plugins yadayada etc, except it wasn't)

[crimsonwarlock]

Doing this kind of modular workflow has been a (pipe) dream of mine for awhile now. If anybody knows how to do this (in DP or any other DAW), I'd love to learn how!

This is basically where Reason excels. Whereas some DAWs have a modular environment (Bitwig's grid, Waveform's racks, FL's patcher, etc.), Reason IS a modular environment. You are completely free how you combine instruments, FX, sequencer channels and mixer channels.

I'm looking at DP because it seems to have similar (or even greater) flexibility. Although obviously not as straightforward as Reason does it. It looks like this functionality has been added over time in DP, while in Reason this is/was the basic structure from the start. I'm not really looking to move DAWs right now, but the upcoming Reason 13 release doesn't fill me with confidence that this will always be the case.

[crimsonwarlock]

Just make sure to demo it for one thing only- stability.

I have the demo installed on Windows 10, and already had it crash once while simply clicking some option somewhere.

[machinesworking]

I just watched the latest webinar where a user goes over using Chunks to load entire Clips with completely new Session clips ands V-Racks that keep the instruments the same for all of them etc.

Ooh this sounds really interesting - is this online anywhere?

The links die after a couple days so watch it soon if you can.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=76102 ... ef=sharing

[apoclypse]

Another plus for DP, & the main reason I can’t leave it, is the wait-for-note feature. Stupidly simple, yet mind-boggingly absent from most DAWs. You press Record, & it won’t start recording until you play your synth. That option to not have to have a count-in before it records is crucial for me. Waiting for the damn countoff EVERY SINGLE TIME is annoying…maybe not at first, or just on a few tracks…but what if your song is say 80 tracks? At 62bpm? You must wait 80 times for that slow countoff before recording (I’d assume you already have a feel for the tempo after a bit). And oh, do you sequence from beginning to end in one go per track, without making a mistake? Need to punch in at some point? Gotta wait for that count-off, so now 80 becomes 160…need to punch-in more than once? Keep multiplying…so much time wasted. )

If I remember correctly Logic had this at some point but they removed it for some reason. I think it was buggy so they just gave up.

[machinesworking]

The important things that blocks do is making arrangements in the song-view very flexible. But even more importantly, you can then have clips "paint over" the blocks, or parts of a block, in the song-view.
I've been watching several DP webinars, and I'm reading through the user-manual, and it appears that a somewhat similar workflow is possible with chunks. The differences are actually in favor of chunks, as you can have several chunks play in parallel, whereas blocks only let you play either the block content or the overlapping song-content.

A few years ago, I tried to use DP's chunks like this - to write songs composed of multiple independent sequences (e.g. a verse chunk, a chorus chunk, etc).

The limitations in DP were:

• The song window is hard to use. For instance:
  • the x-axis was not to scale
  • during song playback there was no visible playhead.
  • Managing overlaps between chunks required manual calculation.
  • Moving one chunk around on the timeline often involved rebuilding the song. I had to keep paper notes to keep track of where each chunk was on the song's timeline.
• No automation for shared instruments in the v-rack (only option was to automate MIDI CC)
• Mixing was a challenge. I don't mean doing the final mix, but even keeping levels somewhat consistent from one chunk to the next was difficult. Flattening a song into a new sequence of its own didn't retain VCA information.

I may have some of that wrong. This was a few years ago, using DP 10. I'm not sure if DP 11 brought an improved song window or not. I know they improved the chunks list.

Doing this kind of modular workflow has been a (pipe) dream of mine for awhile now. If anybody knows how to do this (in DP or any other DAW), I'd love to learn how!

I tried for awhile to accomplish a similar kind of workflow in Logic with its "classic" arrangement folders. I did find that it worked better for me than DP's chunks, but I stopped using this approach because I found that it was hard to manage automation for the whole timeline and the individual sections.

Reaper also seemed promising for this kind of workflow, but I couldn't find a reliable way to have multiple sub-projects share the same instruments.

The Song window is OK but I rarely if ever use it. The method I use to arrange parts of a song in various Sequences/Chunks is to Create a marker at the beginning of each Sequence Chunk and drag them into a Chunk that is the final song. The Reason for the marker is simple, when you select a marker it selects the timeline to the next marker, so cut, copy, paste etc. all work if you throw together an order you don't like.

I think at this point the Song window is most useful when previewing an entire arrangement for a 90 minute film etc. or for trying out the initial arrangement, but once you start getting into the details best to move to a single Sequence Chunk.

[magog]

The Song window is OK but I rarely if ever use it. The method I use to arrange parts of a song in various Sequences/Chunks is to Create a marker at the beginning of each Sequence Chunk and drag them into a Chunk that is the final song. The Reason for the marker is simple, when you select a marker it selects the timeline to the next marker, so cut, copy, paste etc. all work if you throw together an order you don't like.

So when you want to rearrange the sections of the song, you have to create it again from scratch, right?