Kraftur by Soundtheory, a multi band clipper

[SNBeatz]

That is totally disingenuous about the "license is transferrable". Trasferable within a very stupud and expensive transfer policy. Stop trying to obfuscate out of it.

…and then expect to sell it and maybe even making money if you bought it on a discount?

I have no stake in this either way but I find it very odd to see a developer/relations person consistently bring up this point of their customer potentially making money from reselling a license. You picked the initial price, the customer paid that price, and, since you do offer transfers, they are allowed to transfer it. If some dingus was willing to pay 2x, 5x, or 10x the regular price for a resale that’s not really any of your business, unless you preemptively included incredibly anti-consumer (my opinion) terms in your licensing contract, lol. Just seems like a really… petty thing to continue pointing to.

[motomotomoto]

frankly these conversations are over the top imo. providing support for people on software products is expensive. Say a product like this which costs 70 bucks maybe has a little profit after the expense of development / marketing is calculated, and now you the company also has to pay someone a reasonable living wage to answer emails and walk people through installations / support which does go up with new users who have just transferred a license because they are setting it up for the first time.

in any case these things go both ways.

yes, I find these convoluted explanations about why charging more money for transfers is somehow for the customer benefit to be strange justification.

BUT

these guys have to make a living in order to keep making software for us, and as they explain it has to come from someplace. As I see it people either pay upfront an expensive price, pay a subscription of some sort, or pay a low price but pay for updates. there isn't escaping it to support high quality dev shops someone has to pay someplace.

at least for me, i'll demo this and if i love it, i'll buy it, and hopefully never think about transferring my license to anyone at any point. to be honest the ONLY plugins I have ever actually considered selling my licenses for are the Acustica Audio plugins I have purchased. After years of bug fix promises (never delivered), continued glitchy behavior, and new plugin after new plugin being released without ever addressing issues with old plugins, i've totally soured on their products.

[jinotsuh]

Excellent product, top notch sound quality, just hit the mark again.
Going to be a great experience just as Gullfoss has been and continues to be I have no doubt.

Thanks for the awesome plugins

[Erik_Lucas]

Sounds great to me! Easy to dial in, too.

[Kretch]

The odd TP policies aside, Kraftur sounds better than Gold Clip to me. I did not immediately fall in love with it, but after reading the manual and spending some time on it, the multi band saturation and blending option is just really good. I love how it enables you to create more layers to the sound, especially when pairing it with the Sidecar.

[imrae]

And I don't think anyone every complained about the devaluation of Waves plugins over the years because nobody even tries to sell their licenses. Those are the companies that are ripping you off, and there are plenty of them.

People complain about the Waves pricing/business model here all the time. If you haven't seen that lately, it's probably because a) everyone knows already; b) the price people actually buy at ($29) is low enough for them to "price in" the lack of resale and dubious support model.

But rest assured you are not getting a disproportionate response here compared to other developers with complicated and/or restrictive policies. This is tame compared to the various subscription-only attempts.

It would be interesting but tedious to run the numbers: I suspect people complain a lot more about NFR on plugins that cost >=$100 because that's a mental threshold where you really feel like a chump if you find you're not using it in the long run.

[Caine123]

hmmm so why you nee a multiband clipper? i really dunno, i use standardclip and it is really cheap and awesome, eg on hihats, snares etc. also on mastering and i can cut some small db without any change in sound. im interested but dunno yet what is does better?

[atell]

I have no stake in this either way but I find it very odd to see a developer/relations person consistently bring up this point of their customer potentially making money from reselling a license. You picked the initial price, the customer paid that price, and, since you do offer transfers, they are allowed to transfer it. If some dingus was willing to pay 2x, 5x, or 10x the regular price for a resale that’s not really any of your business, unless you preemptively included incredibly anti-consumer (my opinion) terms in your licensing contract, lol. Just seems like a really… petty thing to continue pointing to.

This is not really about an individual making a profit. Mentioning this is to exemplify the economical unsustainability of the situation and to point out that a devaluation of the license is necessary in order to assign a proper value to the received service. Using software comes with a practical value for the user. This value needs to be reflected in the economical value of the license. Without such an assignment the economics would favour abuse and punish the customer who does not take advantage of it. So this is not a problem of the individual, but of the group and the foundational relationship between service provider and customer which needs to be fairly weighing all legitimate interests against each other.

Something that seems to be not commonly understood regarding models with paid updates for devaluation of software licenses is that those are implicitly also a transfer fee. If you don't update your software, it loses resale value which has to be offset by either the seller or the buyer. This offset has exactly the same effect as a transfer fee. The only difference is that with the paid update model, you also need to pay if you just want to keep using the software.

Please think about it for a while and if you still feel the need for discussion afterwards, I'll be listening and be open-minded.

[Kretch]

[Digivolt]

Now, if you bought Gullfoss for our $99 introductory offer, you could now sell it for $199, because your license is just as good as a new license bought from us. So you would have used Gullfoss for six full years, received all the maintenance and would even have gained up to $100 by selling it. That doesn’t sound quite fair, neither to us developers nor to those customers who in fact payed for your time spent with the plugin and the money you made from it by selling it for more than you paid.

With all due respect but this is hogwash, there isn't a single person who is picking up a license on sale and then selling it for RRP years later because nobody is buying 2nd hand licenses at RRP

[buzzlegs]

All this talk of the transfer policy is so boring that I’ve completely lost interest in even demoing this plugin lol, it sounds so convoluted to sell this thing if you end up not using it and want to offload it.

If I want to sell a plugin I just want to sell it and move on, not work out some weird math algorithm to try and figure out how much to sell it for.

Having said that, good luck with the plugin!… probably sounds great, I’ll just never know now lol!;)….

[martiu]

… probably sounds great, I’ll just never know now lol!;)….

buy plugin, do now

[vitocorleone123]

All this talk of the transfer policy is so boring that I’ve completely lost interest in even demoing this plugin lol, it sounds so convoluted to sell this thing if you end up not using it and want to offload it.

If I want to sell a plugin I just want to sell it and move on, not work out some weird math algorithm to try and figure out how much to sell it for.

Having said that, good luck with the plugin!… probably sounds great, I’ll just never know now lol!;)….

There's a thing called a demo. You install and use it to the point you decide whether to buy it or not. If you do, then you enjoy using the software.

If you purchase things based on whether you can resell them, well, that's a very different approach than I have, which is to enjoy what I buy.

[Ploki]

I buy and I grow out of tools or find other that suit my workflow better or simply don't need them anymore.
Some things i never sell, some things i sell after half a year, some things i buy again, some things i sell after 3 years.

I just don't like collecting licenses of stuff that i don't use.

The issues with the resale policy is that it's convoluted af and also expensive.

A base fee of $10 is charged for effecting a transfer. Additionally, a transfer fee of 10% of the RRP of the software product will be charged per year of completed ownership for the first 4 years. After that it's 5% of the RRP. It is important that you notify support directly about any transfer.

Technically if i bought gullfoss 10Y ago and wanna sell it:
i pay:
10€ flat
+ 40% (72€) for first 4 (x10%) years
+ 30% (54€) for last 6 (x5%) years
that's 136€.
If I bought it full price (180€) that means that the cost I effectively pay soundtheory is 316€ in total.
If i want to SELL it, Soundtheory is basically charging me yearly subscription ON TOP of perpetual license.

You're not buying your license, you're effectively renting it but paying the fee upfront.
Even after 4 years, for 82€ I'm not selling it - for 82€ i'm just buying another plugin and delete this if i'm not using it...

I really don't see how this is "customer friendly" at all, this is just a convoluted way to charge more. Just price it 199€ like Oeksound and be done with it.

[buzzlegs]

All this talk of the transfer policy is so boring that I’ve completely lost interest in even demoing this plugin lol, it sounds so convoluted to sell this thing if you end up not using it and want to offload it.

If I want to sell a plugin I just want to sell it and move on, not work out some weird math algorithm to try and figure out how much to sell it for.

Having said that, good luck with the plugin!… probably sounds great, I’ll just never know now lol!;)….

There's a thing called a demo. You install and use it to the point you decide whether to buy it or not. If you do, then you enjoy using the software.

If you purchase things based on whether you can resell them, well, that's a very different approach than I have, which is to enjoy what I buy.

Sometimes I've bought stuff because of the 'honeymoon period',... then I find I just doesn't use it at all after awhile, so I decide to sell.