I suck at mastering what is the best Multiband Compressor ==> Ozone vs Fabfilter vs Bitwig Compressor+

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I'm not available for any troll games. Look for somebody else.

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If the above was regarding my question, it was a legitimate question. I genuinely am interested in the answer. I am open minded as to whether room correction software is at all effective, and if not, then why it is not. By definition, this cannot be trolling.

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Its all about math jeezus, math actually works, believe it. :tu:

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Cavey Arrgh wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:30 am I have no horse in this race, but are you saying that if your room acoustics swallow bass freq by 2db, and some correction software tells you this, and applies an eq curve where it increases that bass freq by 2db, this does not improve anything at all? Zero improvement?

If so, please explain the physics.
Jac459's explanation is the best way to look at it. If you do frequency correction without any room treatment at all, the corrections will cause problems elsewhere in the room. Fix a node and now resonance shows up somewhere else. But used together and you can get great results, very likely better than using room treatment alone if you're not using $3K+ monitors.

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Room correction software is only good for the space immediately around the mix position.

No room is perfect anywhere, much less everywhere. No monitors are perfect either. An all-of-the-above approach is of course the best: great monitors in a great room that has been professionally treated, plus room correction software to get the mix position as good as possible.

But any one—or a combination—of the above is still better than none of the above. And that's what most people are working with.

Even with all of the above, it won't be "perfect" because there is no such thing. Really, you just need "good enough" to be able to work through to a mix that translates.

I know from my own personal experience that ARC cleaned my monitors to an extent that shocked me because I hadn't realized just how much clean-up they needed until I did it. I can say for absolute certain that my monitors sound like much better monitors now. It's like taking a hose to all the mud.
THIS MUSIC HAS BEEN MIXED TO BE PLAYED LOUD SO TURN IT UP

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Uncle E wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:26 am
Cavey Arrgh wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:30 am I have no horse in this race, but are you saying that if your room acoustics swallow bass freq by 2db, and some correction software tells you this, and applies an eq curve where it increases that bass freq by 2db, this does not improve anything at all? Zero improvement?

If so, please explain the physics.
Jac459's explanation is the best way to look at it. If you do frequency correction without any room treatment at all, the corrections will cause problems elsewhere in the room. Fix a node and now resonance shows up somewhere else. But used together and you can get great results, very likely better than using room treatment alone if you're not using $3K+ monitors.
Thank you. Whack-a-mole seems like a perfectly cromulent explanation.

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jamcat wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 1:06 pm Room correction software is only good for the space immediately around the mix position.

No room is perfect anywhere, much less everywhere. No monitors are perfect either. An all-of-the-above approach is of course the best: great monitors in a great room that has been professionally treated, plus room correction software to get the mix position as good as possible.

But any one—or a combination—of the above is still better than none of the above. And that's what most people are working with.

Even with all of the above, it won't be "perfect" because there is no such thing. Really, you just need "good enough" to be able to work through to a mix that translates.

I know from my own personal experience that ARC cleaned my monitors to an extent that shocked me because I hadn't realized just how much clean-up they needed until I did it. I can say for absolute certain that my monitors sound like much better monitors now. It's like taking a hose to all the mud.
I had a good illustration of that recently.

I am doing maybe 80% of my mixing throughout 🎧. I am living in one of the top expensive city in the world and I just can't have a dedicated room for production. As such I have a room with very good monitors but a very imperfect room.
So my process is a bit painful, I use headphones with EQ correction and a software room simulator for rough adjustments then fine tune with my imperfect room (trying to make the pix transpose well in my headphones AND system) and then I expand to other systems (Bluetooth speakers, noise cancelling headphones (which love to add a ton of bass).

Recently I struggled a lot with the low-end adjustment of one track --> moving from my headphones to the monitors where giving very different results.
What I did is to upgrade my headphones (from focal elegia to senheiser hd660s2) and it solved my problem.
BUT even more interesting is that after, I started to re-listen to my previous tracks with the hd660s2 thinking that the low-end will be crap but no. It was actually fine.

So it taught me 2 things:
1 - EQ correction is indeed not silver bullet, even with reasonably high-end headsets.
2 - You can still mix well with an imperfect system provided that you reference a lot and cross check your mix.

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Cavey Arrgh wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:40 pm cromulent
Never mind all this mixing guff, I'm just pleased to see a use of 'cromulent' in the wild. :clap:

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donkey tugger wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 5:19 pm
Cavey Arrgh wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:40 pm cromulent
Never mind all this mixing guff, I'm just pleased to see a use of 'cromulent' in the wild. :clap:
I just learned that Merriam Webster added it to the dictionary (as a real word), so the joke is sort of ruined, I guess? Or is the joke embiggened by this?

Back on topic, try mixing inside a toilet bowl. If mix sounds good, you are done!

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"Mix sounds great but smells like a$$!"

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I am a mastering engineer but I suck at dentistry, that's how it goes.

Why anyone would think that they can do the same job as someone who has spent very large sums of money on equipment, room and has decades of experience is beyond me.

An ME may have 100 tools, you choose specifically what and how much and what order from years and years of accumulated knowledge.

It is ridiculous to think this can be DIY'd or some server can do this task.

It merely shows most people know very little about audio and will be scrabbling around chasing their tail, probably forever.

Some people simply never learn.

Keep buying the next plug in though, cause that'll help. :roll:

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Cavey Arrgh wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:30 am I have no horse in this race, but are you saying that if your room acoustics swallow bass freq by 2db, and some correction software tells you this, and applies an eq curve where it increases that bass freq by 2db, this does not improve anything at all? Zero improvement?

If so, please explain the physics.
If your room is just 2db out in the bass then you have a very good room, and making it 'perfect' with correction may help.

If you have completely nulling bass at 100hz in a small room you might be 15-20db out, or more, and trying to add back that frequency can just result in more nulling and inaccuracy. In that situation to reduce cancellation you need to absorb those frequencies.

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Synthman2000 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:18 pm I am a mastering engineer but I suck at dentistry, that's how it goes.

Why anyone would think that they can do the same job as someone who has spent very large sums of money on equipment, room and has decades of experience is beyond me.

An ME may have 100 tools, you choose specifically what and how much and what order from years and years of accumulated knowledge.

It is ridiculous to think this can be DIY'd or some server can do this task.

It merely shows most people know very little about audio and will be scrabbling around chasing their tail, probably forever.

Some people simply never learn.

Keep buying the next plug in though, cause that'll help. :roll:
It is not very clear on who you are answering to and why you are making this point, but as a rule of thumb, in my professional area, when somebody uses the fact that he is a "pro" or has "certification" or any brownie points in order to show-off and make his/her point, it is generally a sign that the person is not so good at what it does...
Somehow I am more receptive on facts and arguments...

That being said, if you want to stop showing off and share knowledge, You are very much welcome to do so.

Also if you are such a pro and have nothing to learn, I wonder what you are doing in KVR if not helping others... Is it because you lack recognition from your peers ?

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Jac459 wrote: Thu Jul 11, 2024 6:21 am
Synthman2000 wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:18 pm I am a mastering engineer but I suck at dentistry, that's how it goes.

Why anyone would think that they can do the same job as someone who has spent very large sums of money on equipment, room and has decades of experience is beyond me.

An ME may have 100 tools, you choose specifically what and how much and what order from years and years of accumulated knowledge.

It is ridiculous to think this can be DIY'd or some server can do this task.

It merely shows most people know very little about audio and will be scrabbling around chasing their tail, probably forever.

Some people simply never learn.

Keep buying the next plug in though, cause that'll help. :roll:
It is not very clear on who you are answering to and why you are making this point, but as a rule of thumb, in my professional area, when somebody uses the fact that he is a "pro" or has "certification" or any brownie points in order to show-off and make his/her point, it is generally a sign that the person is not so good at what it does...
Somehow I am more receptive on facts and arguments...

That being said, if you want to stop showing off and share knowledge, You are very much welcome to do so.

Also if you are such a pro and have nothing to learn, I wonder what you are doing in KVR if not helping others... Is it because you lack recognition from your peers ?

Lots of words that mean nothing.

Jac, I have nothing against your or anyone posts really. I don't know you after all so why would I. These type of posts are indicative of people expecting high skilled, audio specific, studio specific very cautious and accurate work taking place that is meant to be replaced by what exactly ? A few words, an AI server, magic wands ?

Here is some knowledge... mix it better ! With all that encompasses which is the entirety of fundamental audio engineering concepts.

However, repeating the basic fundamental concepts of audio is a waste of time on here as people want a plug in or answers to the unanswerable, with no audio.

People who worry about what their peers think are :

A) Not confident enough in their own work.
B) Have too little work on.
C) Probably want to reconsider use of their time.

I share knowledge on here about a range of topics, just not on this thread and your post above demonstrates precisely why.

My real in depth knowledge is shared in relation to specific pieces of music/productions/mixes with those who value and support my work.

KVR is a fun pass time place, that's allowed too isn't it ?

All the best with getting your track how you envisage it to sound.

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@Synthman2000

How would you go about Ambient - Mastering, which EQ or Compressor, add some analog Mojo or just keeping it clean ITB?

Honest Question, as I indeed once came here to learn something new, learn from the Greats. Actually my first Years on KVR were spent in read - only Mode.

So if you have some nifty Tip & Tricks, you are more than Welcome. :phones:
You can be creative in any right place on Earth, and not only in the wealthiest cities. Bring the world feelings from everywhere, and not only feelings of capitalistic or jail environment.
― Aleksey Vaneev

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