Kilohearts Updates the Entire Kilohearts Ecosystem to v2 - Including Phase Plant

[limitlesssss]

Hi KiloHearts, can you guys make the double delay to go to 0.001 ms delay time, it will be nice on amen breaks, thanks.

Or at least 0.0001 ms

[limitlesssss]

To find out more about Kilohearts v2 read this blog post: https://kilohearts.com/blog/kilohearts-v2-is-here

I also have these general suggestions for all Kilohearts snapins:

1. Have an option to show the value of the knob the cursor is hovering on, instead of the description. Like the following images: Because every time I want to know the exact value of a knob, I have to right click on it. It's inconvenient.



2. And also the auto-scrolling description at the bottom becomes very distracting and annoying very quickly. There are two options for this, 1. At least expand the bottom part, so the description wouldn't have to auto-scroll. 2. Option to hide the description altogether.

3. Have an option to use left-click (instead of right-click) to change the value of a knob (like FabFilter). Some of us are very used to that. Just an option.

4. Add an option to also be able to change the value of a knob using mouse scrolling (like almost every other plugin company). Although now (a year after making this comment on another website) I understand the rationale behind the decision for not letting mouse scrolling change the value of knobs. I'm aware that holding Ctrl does the trick.

[limitlesssss]

To find out more about Kilohearts v2 read this blog post: https://kilohearts.com/blog/kilohearts-v2-is-here

May I suggest a new feature/snapin?

A new snapin that can directly connect to third-party plug-ins. The benefit? Well you modulate this new snapin inside Snap Heap/Phase Plant/Multipass, and those modulations are mirrored in the third-party plug-ins. And each knob in the snapin would be able to modulate several knobs simultaneously in different or the same third-party plug-in.

Imagine having a snapin with 8 knobs each being modulated differently, and each controlling 8 different knobs in the same third-party plug-in or in different third-party plug-ins.

I'm only talking about sending Kilohearts' complex modulation capabilities as commands to control third-party plug-ins using this new snapin. The resulting audio signal of these third-party plug-ins does not have to be routed back into Kilohearts ecosystem.

[xerxes[no]]

To find out more about Kilohearts v2 read this blog post: https://kilohearts.com/blog/kilohearts-v2-is-here

May I suggest a new feature/snapin?

A new snapin that can directly connect to third-party plug-ins. The benefit? Well you modulate this new snapin inside Snap Heap/Phase Plant/Multipass, and those modulations are mirrored in the third-party plug-ins. And each knob in the snapin would be able to modulate several knobs simultaneously in different or the same third-party plug-in.

Imagine having a snapin with 8 knobs each being modulated differently, and each controlling 8 different knobs in the same third-party plug-in or in different third-party plug-ins.

I'm only talking about sending Kilohearts' complex modulation capabilities as commands to control third-party plug-ins using this new snapin. The resulting audio signal of these third-party plug-ins does not have to be routed back into Kilohearts ecosystem.

Have you considered Bitwig?

[PieBerger]

To find out more about Kilohearts v2 read this blog post: https://kilohearts.com/blog/kilohearts-v2-is-here

May I suggest a new feature/snapin?

A new snapin that can directly connect to third-party plug-ins. The benefit? Well you modulate this new snapin inside Snap Heap/Phase Plant/Multipass, and those modulations are mirrored in the third-party plug-ins. And each knob in the snapin would be able to modulate several knobs simultaneously in different or the same third-party plug-in.

Imagine having a snapin with 8 knobs each being modulated differently, and each controlling 8 different knobs in the same third-party plug-in or in different third-party plug-ins.

I'm only talking about sending Kilohearts' complex modulation capabilities as commands to control third-party plug-ins using this new snapin. The resulting audio signal of these third-party plug-ins does not have to be routed back into Kilohearts ecosystem.

Have you considered Bitwig?

Our lord and saviour!

[limitlesssss]

To find out more about Kilohearts v2 read this blog post: https://kilohearts.com/blog/kilohearts-v2-is-here

May I suggest a new feature/snapin?

A new snapin that can directly connect to third-party plug-ins. The benefit? Well you modulate this new snapin inside Snap Heap/Phase Plant/Multipass, and those modulations are mirrored in the third-party plug-ins. And each knob in the snapin would be able to modulate several knobs simultaneously in different or the same third-party plug-in.

Imagine having a snapin with 8 knobs each being modulated differently, and each controlling 8 different knobs in the same third-party plug-in or in different third-party plug-ins.

I'm only talking about sending Kilohearts' complex modulation capabilities as commands to control third-party plug-ins using this new snapin. The resulting audio signal of these third-party plug-ins does not have to be routed back into Kilohearts ecosystem.

Have you considered Bitwig?

I love Nuendo too much.

[limitlesssss]

Do Kilohearts folks even read or respond here the way Urs from u-he does? Where should I exactly ask my question and present my suggestions to actually be read by folks at Kilohearts?

[WasteLand]

Do Kilohearts folks even read or respond here the way Urs from u-he does? Where should I exactly ask my question and present my suggestions to actually be read by folks at Kilohearts?

go to their discord server, not all developers/brands (or many) do react here...

[limitlesssss]

Do Kilohearts folks even read or respond here the way Urs from u-he does? Where should I exactly ask my question and present my suggestions to actually be read by folks at Kilohearts?

go to their discord server, not all developers/brands (or many) do react here...

Unfortunately I don't have a discord account and I don't even know how to use it. I guess I have to email them.

[limitlesssss]

Kilohearts has announced a significant free update to the entire Kilohearts Ecosystem of plugins with the release of Kilohearts v2.

Kilohearts Plug-ins Aren't Bit Transparent (Request 64-Bit FP update)

TL;DR request: Dear Kilohearts, please update all your plug-ins (including all 33 snapins) to operate at 64-Bit Floating Point internally and also send/receive their data at 64-Bit Floating Point so there would be no need for a 64-Bit to 32-Bit and 32-Bit to 64-Bit conversion either. So a Full End-to-End 64-Bit Floating Point signal path update please? So that there's no need for dither either.

You can recreate my test here:

• Open a new project in REAPER.

• Go to Project Settings > Advanced and make sure that mixing bit depth is at 64-Bit Float.

• Go to Project Settings > Media and make sure everything there is also at 64-Bit FP.

• On the master bus insert Schwa's Bitter or REAPER's own Bit Meter plus REAPER's own Frequency Spectrum Analyzer Meter.

• Change the Frequency Spectrum Analyzer Meter's floor to -450dB.

• Load a test audio track (preferably sine sweep without added noise).

• Duplicate this track.

• Switch the polarity on the duplicated track.

• Press play and you should see that both tracks null perfectly (they are bit-perfect (identical)).

• Now insert Kilohearts' simplest plug-in called GAIN on the duplicated track and leave its gain at zero.

• Press play again, you'll see that the tracks won't perfectly null anymore. In fact, if you render the result and boost it by +150dB, you'll hear the (truncation noise?).

• Now let's add a second Kilohearts' Gain plug-in after the first one (both on the same track). Change the gain on the first one to exactly -3dB, and change the gain on the second one to exactly +3dB.

• Press play again, and this time, not only will you see the truncation noise, but you'll see the signal coming through as well (especially if it's a sine sweep). All you need to do to hear it as well, is to render the result and boost it by +129dB.

• Let's go even further and copy/paste the Gain plug-in *pair* a few hundred times. Remember, for each kHs Gain plug-in that is at -3dB, you MUST have a kHs Gain plug-in that is at +3dB. Here are my result:

• 4 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -124dB.
• 8 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -119dB.
• 16 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -113dB.
• 32 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -107dB.
• 64 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -101dB.
• 128 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -95.8dB.
• 256 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -89.8dB.
• 512 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -83.8dB.
• 1024 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -77.8dB.
• ...

A few notes:

• I understand some may say that these are not audible and therefore there's nothing to fix.

• It makes me wonder whether this is because Kilohearts' plug-ins aren't internally working at 64-Bit Floating Point precision that causes this?

• I did the same test with REAPER's own faders. Only when I set the gain at exactly 1-Bit increments, did the two track null perfectly. -/+ 6.02059991327dB to be precise.

• Airwindows BitShiftGain nulls perfectly (obviously).

• I tested this in other DAWs with the same result: Studio One, Ardour...

• My test signal peaks at 0dBFS.

So again, please update all your plug-ins (including all 33 snapins) to operate at 64-Bit Floating Point internally and also send/receive their data at 64-Bit Floating Point so there would be no need for a 64-Bit to 32-Bit and 32-Bit to 64-Bit conversion either. So an End-to-End 64-Bit Floating Point signal path update please?



Only one kHs Gain plug-in with gain at 0dB:




2 kHs Gain plug-ins on the same track, the first one at -3dB and the second one at +3dB:




8 kHs Gain plug-ins on the same track four of which are at -3dB, the other four at +3dB:


In another forum I added audio examples for anyone interested. I'm not sure if it's okay to share the link here.

These are converted to mp3 for easy sharing:

Original Signal:
https://gearspace.com/board/attachments ... signal.mp3

1 kHs Gain plug-in without touching its setting (at 0dB):
https://gearspace.com/board/attachments ... boost-.mp3

Two kHs Gain at -3dB and +3dB (+129dB Boost):
https://gearspace.com/board/attachments ... boost-.mp3

256 kHs Gain, 128 of them at -3dB and the other 128 at +3dB (+89.8dB Boost):
https://gearspace.com/board/attachments ... boost-.mp3

1024 kHs Gain, 512 of them at -3dB and the other 512 at +3dB (+77.8dB Boost):
https://gearspace.com/board/attachments ... boost-.mp3

[martinjuenke]

Musicians versus Plugin Doctor debate.
I stay on the Musician side...

-> Kilohearts, please don't waste ressources on this request.

Thanks!

[RPH]

Kilohearts Plug-ins Aren't Bit Transparent (Request 64-Bit FP update)

TL;DR request: Dear Kilohearts, please update all your plug-ins (including all 33 snapins) to operate at 64-Bit Floating Point internally and also send/receive their data at 64-Bit Floating Point so there would be no need for a 64-Bit to 32-Bit and 32-Bit to 64-Bit conversion either. So a Full End-to-End 64-Bit Floating Point signal path update please? So that there's no need for dither either.

Can you provide some real world comparision between a 32bit song and 64 bit song, showcasing the need for 64bit floating point in all their plugs?

[limitlesssss]

Kilohearts Plug-ins Aren't Bit Transparent (Request 64-Bit FP update)

TL;DR request: Dear Kilohearts, please update all your plug-ins (including all 33 snapins) to operate at 64-Bit Floating Point internally and also send/receive their data at 64-Bit Floating Point so there would be no need for a 64-Bit to 32-Bit and 32-Bit to 64-Bit conversion either. So a Full End-to-End 64-Bit Floating Point signal path update please? So that there's no need for dither either.

Can you provide some real world comparision between a 32bit song and 64 bit song, showcasing the need for 64bit floating point in all their plugs?

I didn't claim there was necessarily an audible difference (especially without manipulating a signal hundreds or maybe thousands of times), but there are people who do just that, manipulate and manipulate a signal and it helps if the signal path remains pure as it can be. But under normal circumstances, you're definitely fine at 32-Bit FP. But again, if you're someone who manipulates his/her signal many many times, you'd probably appreciate a cleaner signal path. Your mileage may vary obviously.

Is it okay to link to a GS post, with audio examples of my post above? Or is linking to an external website (especially a competing one forbidden)?

[limitlesssss]

These are converted to mp3 for easy sharing:

Original Signal:
https://gearspace.com/board/attachments ... signal.mp3

1 kHs Gain plug-in without touching its setting (at 0dB):
https://gearspace.com/board/attachments ... boost-.mp3

Two kHs Gain at -3dB and +3dB (+129dB Boost):
https://gearspace.com/board/attachments ... boost-.mp3

256 kHs Gain, 128 of them at -3dB and the other 128 at +3dB (+89.8dB Boost):
https://gearspace.com/board/attachments ... boost-.mp3

1024 kHs Gain, 512 of them at -3dB and the other 512 at +3dB (+77.8dB Boost):
https://gearspace.com/board/attachments ... boost-.mp3

[Igro]

FL-Studio is 32bit FP. If KH updates their plugins to 64bit FP, then, as you say, there will be destructive conversation?