Linux Users, What's You Distro Experience?

[glokraw]

@ dan_flash: AVLinux is debian, and based on the MX Linux distro, that has many custom utilities for customizing and configuration. You can install the synaptic package manager, and expand it's debian base as desired. it is maintained by one guy for creating music, and recording his band, and he shares it so others can use it as is, or modify it further. It has many audio/video demo apps installed, and has wine, Reaper and yabridge plugin wrapper set up for use, just install your plugins. There is a handy gui call yadbridge, to make plugin wrapping simple, not that it's rocket science to type

yabridgectl add /home/you/.wine/drive_c/users/vstplugins

yabridgectl add /home/you/.wine/drive_c/"Program Files/VstPlugins"

yabridgectl sync

I have an old nVidia GT 9400 pcie video card, and an mAudio 24/96 pci soundcard, and don't have recording problems. I have one setup with the nvidia 3D driver that also works fine, and use older, recent, and the latest AVL releases, for various needs.
Cheers

[ghettosynth]

No tweaking or anything - it just works.

I don't use Bitwig. Yabridge itself needs a lot of tweaking and it's not fully compatible with Wine. It also doesn't work with any of the oversampling VST wrappers I'm using so it's not an option at this point. I don't want to be forced to run all plugins at 44.1 kHz, I need oversampling. And then there is of course the problem of missing audio interface drivers, bad kernel performance and high latency. It's too much too fix and I don't have the time nor knowledge to do all of that. I want to record and mix, not to learn how to program my own Linux distro.

The simple answer is that Linux is not for you. Use a Mac or Windows.

Apparently, my post got caught up in the sweep, but that was the essence of it. I've been on the Debian and friends train for a few decades now and choose distro based on application, but which distro isn't all that important if you aren't willing to invest some energy into learning Linux. Moreover, and this is the key point, if you don't "need" to use Linux, then don't, it's just going to stress you out. There's no reason to invest that energy if you don't have a compelling use case.

BTW: Even though I often run some audio tools on Linux, it is not my primary platform for audio and probably never will be. So don't take my Debian endorsement as an endorsement for audio on Linux or as a distro choice for audio. I will say that Linux recognizes a lot of hardware that is no longer supported in Windows, e.g., my NI Kontrol 1.

My advice in that post was solid. If you think that you want to use Linux for some application, don't install it on your only computer. Put it on a second (third, fourth, or fifth) computer but make sure that it has a use case that forces you to spend some time with it. This will help keep your frustration down if things don't work as expected. If your response to that is "why would I do all that" then I contend that you don't really have a compelling use case for Linux.

[mjolnir]

thanks for the replies, guys.
i've been surprisingly happy with my distro for a change, but i can't help but wonder since there's like hundreds of other distros. thanks for the infos.

[BertKoor]

i've been surprisingly happy with my distro

Which is ???
Or did you create a distro yourself?

[Tiles]

I like Debian with Cinnamon Desktop. Alot of distros are relying on Debian, so why not go with the source? As musicians we must push, that the developers make their stuff running natively on linux. How come that some Devs can do that easily without having a problem just as U-he, Bitwig, and Reaper? And others still stick only to Mac and Windows?

It's not easily, that's the misunderstanding already. Starts already with that there is not THE Linux. There are over 600 distros, with dozens of desktops, dozens of package managers, and lots of different dependency configurations. It is in general this cluttered eco system and all this "we do it our way" that makes it so hard for software developers. Linux at the desktop would eagerly need some unification and standardization in more than one area.

Reaper does not work on "the" Linux. It offers four tar versions for the most common distros. At Arch and Debian from what i can see, plus two more. This will not work everywhere. It misses the platform agnostic solutions like Snap, Flatpak or Appimage. Bitwig comes with Flatpak. But even these platform agnostic solutions doesn't run everywhere. Not natively anyways. Snap and Flatpak needs installed packages first. Just Appimage is drag n drop and working. When it works. A Appimage created at Ubuntu 23 will not work at Debian 12. The glibc version is too high then, and so not known at Debian.

For Windows you build one exe installer. It will work the next ten years. For Linux you build a deb, a tar, a Appimage, a *.sh etc. , which still just covers part of it. In best case you would need to build a package for every package manager. And these binaries will work maximum two years when you are lucky. Then the next version of the distro will appear, and may make your software dysfunctional. Multiplicated with 600. In the unluckiest case you release your software, and a distro like Ubuntu makes an important dependency deprecated with a point upgrade two weeks later. Which makes your software dysfunctional then. Happened to me. So i unfortunately know what i talk about. I have all these troubles, no hearsay.

To develop for Linux is in general much more development effort and trouble, and much more support effort for a market that is basically non existent. And that was already it for the very most software manufracturers. it doesn't pay off.

The points that makes the life of us software developers so hard is known well since many years. Even by Linus Torvalds. The video where he talks about it is from 2014. And none of the points are solved.



My experience with Linux at the desktop: Always some trouble in the way. Biggest minus is the lack of software. And the reason for the lack of software can be found in the video. It's all these tiny stumbling blocks that the Linux distros puts us developers in the way.

You really need to dig to find a use case where Linux is at least on par with Windows. Music is none of it. Music at Linux is for Linux enthusiasts and idealists. Not that i want to stop anybody to use it. But when your goal is to make music, then the better solution is Windows or Mac. That's what the masses uses. That's where the software lives.

[glokraw]

@Tiles A few things come to mind reading your post.
The "masses" don't compose music at all.
Composers using Mac and Windows systems are as idealistic and enthusiastic as linux users.
Your time frames assume everyone always updates their recording computer OS.
Your time frame skips over huge swathes of historic compatability failures.
The amount and quality of native linux music software is always growing and improving.
Wine and yabridge make it easy for average users to run most windows plugins in linux daws.
There may be 600 distros, but only 6 are relevant to music software developers.
You claim linux is hard to develope for. Golf is hard too. So is fishing. People still golf and fish.
You claim there is no market for linux software. So what? People still code for other reasons.
You complain about diversity of choice.

Some good advice for the peanut gallery: Attempting to learn from those who failed, and wallow in the failure, is bad luck. Surround yourself with successful helpful people, who offer solutions and positive encouragement instead of complaints. Life is short, so build and populate yours wisely.
Cheers

[Tiles]

I don't complain. Well, i could, a little bit, since i would love to migrate, but cannot. Since my needed software is missing. And that's already end of road.

Here i just answer the question why there is so few software for Linux available. I explain why it is how it is, from the point of view of somebody who develops games and software since 25 years. And Linus backs me up here. He knows all the points too since a long time. What you talk about is idealism and enthusiasm again. Which is not my point.

My only comment as a user is that I have simply a job to do. And this job is either my music or as a developer my software project. Linux is not my job.

[Largos]

Reaper does not work on "the" Linux. It offers four tar versions for the most common distros. At Arch and Debian from what i can see, plus two more. This will not work everywhere. It misses the platform agnostic solutions like Snap, Flatpak or Appimage. Bitwig comes with Flatpak. But even these platform agnostic solutions doesn't run everywhere. Not natively anyways. Snap and Flatpak needs installed packages first. Just Appimage is drag n drop and working. When it works. A Appimage created at Ubuntu 23 will not work at Debian 12. The glibc version is too high then, and so not known at Debian.

This is why you should not speak on this subject, you don't know what you're talking about. The different tar versions are for different cpu architectures. I don't know why you have to do this 15 IQ crap on every linux thread you see.

[Tiles]

Sheesh

That's always the point where i immediately regret to even join such a discussion here. And is already the end of it again. I will not discuss with toxic people.

Did i mention the biggest problem of Linux? Trolls, morons, liars, character assassinators, Linux talibans ... in short the unbelievable toxic community. They will kill you for their faith and golden calf if they can. As you can see here once again. Doesn't understand a single word of what i say, but goes immediately toxic.

The different tar versions are for different cpu architectures.

Ah, Arch is a different CPU architecture? I had no idea

Truth is, i didn't even have a closer look at the content. I just saw a few files to download again where you have one file at Windows, which already proves my point. The tar could contain a binary, or a sh, or a deb. I simply don't care. The details that you moan about was not my point.

Dear Linux fanatics, this is not your board. But our board. Grow up and come back when you want to discuss in an adult manner.

As a side note, i have just for fun downloaded and installed Reaper at Debian 12 now, and guess what does not work. Doesn't start. That's Linux. I would once more first have to investigate again. And that's simply not my job.

[gauderbock]

Ah, Arch is a different CPU architecture? I had no idea

Not sure whether to LOL or whoosh

[ghettosynth]

The different tar versions are for different cpu architectures.

Ah, Arch is a different CPU architecture? I had no idea

Yes, ARM64. If you knew that and were trying to make a joke, it needs more funny. If you didn't know that you could have inferred it from the other versions that are clearly targeting well known architectures.

So, my post was deleted but I think that the idealism exists in you more than "the community." You are expecting "the community" to be invested in how tough it is for you to run your software. They are invested in Linux as it solves problems for them.

As a side note, i have just for fun downloaded and installed Reaper at Debian 12 now, and guess what does not work. Doesn't start. That's Linux. I would once more first have to investigate again. And that's simply not my job.

It's not our job either. You might get the impression that many users care about outsiders adopting Linux. I think glokraw does. I couldn't care less. When I'm using Linux, there's almost never a better choice, perhaps another free unix of some sort. I think that the vast majority of people who actually use Linux on a daily basis to get work done aren't a part of the distro-hopping "community. "

[Tiles]

Yes, ARM64.

I know what ARM is, but Arch is a distro. https://archlinux.org/

So, yeah, maybe i do mix things up. Especially since the official Arch packages are just optimized for the x86-64 architecture. So you tell me Arch is now ARM64 too? What a mess. As told, there is a reason why there is so few software for Linux available. When there is even a name clash ...

So, my post was deleted

Must have been for a reason. I try to stay friendly.

but I think that the idealism exists in you more than "the community."

No my friend. To quote myself:

Here i just answer the question why there is so few software for Linux available.

I am highly pragmatic. I use Windows AND Linux. I can compare. My first Linux was Suse back in 99. I would even use a Mac if i had one. Only reason is the money. I told it before, ideology does not fill my frigerator. I have a job to do. You can use whatever does the job for you.

Of course i have an opinion, but this was not the point here. I answered a question.

It's not our job either. You might get the impression that many users care about outsiders adopting Linux. I think glokraw does. I couldn't care less. When I'm using Linux, there's almost never a better choice, perhaps another free unix of some sort. I think that the vast majority of people who actually use Linux on a daily basis to get work done aren't a part of the distro-hopping "community.

Yeah, your job is clearly Linux. Mine is music and software development. I don't use Windows, or Mac or Linux, i use software

[audiojunkie]

Rather than post a response to any particular individual, I will post to the thread in general. To be clear, I don’t want to fight with anyone. But with that said, I really do disagree with all of the Linux negativity. We are in the middle of the next generation of Linux computing. The next generation Linux OSes combine immutability and Cloud Native technologies to largely resolve all of these problems. For example, with Fedora Silverblue, I can run natively almost any Linux application regardless of the OS it was compiled on. Other Linux OSes can utilize the same technologies, but they don’t come installed by default. Granted, it is a new paradigm, and some users can’t wrap their heads around it, or don’t consider it a proper solution, but it is what it is, and it is the future of Linux computing, and it resolves most of the problems. The key words in all of this are Cloud Native and Immutability. That’s the key to next generation Linux computing.

Edit: Here is a good beginner tutorial:

[audiojunkie]

Here is another video about it:

[audiojunkie]

Here is a little bit of an explanation about Cloud and Cloud Native. The key point is leveraging cloud technologies—in our case, it is for home computing: