KVR Audio

Wopelka · Post by **Wopelka** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:38 am

my mixes are so so, i know it, i have a lot to learn yet technically speaking...

but i thought my tracks were at least "passable"... The other day i listened to a CD of my own tracks on a friend's new system... it hit me hard... the sound was muddy, the bass-end prominent, the overall mix awful.

i'm disappointed, i'm even discouraged...

time to get some decent monitors ?
time to get some decent monitors!...

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:12 pm

Well even with decent monitors, you may or may not get good results. You should always audition your mixes on several stereos so you can get an idea. I listen on my monitors, my home stereo, my wifes old boombox, and my car stereo before I consider the mix "complete"

CypherOne · Post by **CypherOne** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:15 pm

S_A_P wrote:Well even with decent monitors, you may or may not get good results. You should always audition your mixes on several stereos so you can get an idea. I listen on my monitors, my home stereo, my wifes old boombox, and my car stereo before I consider the mix "complete"

I used to do that but don't anymore. I often get compliments on the production quality (probably to divert attention away from the poor songwriting

).

What helped me was listening to commercial music in a similar vein to that which I try to make, on my PC. I realised quite quickly where my mixes were going wrong. I was also surprised as to how different those tracks sounded on my pc versus my home stereo, but it quickly explained why my tracks used to be too bassy.

DevonB · Post by **DevonB** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:17 pm

Monitors are a good start, but some bass traps/treatment to treat the room if they continue to be too bass heavy.

Devon

chagzuki · Post by **chagzuki** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:20 pm

I've been through that over and over, always thinking my mixes had arrived and then being shocked how wrong everything was on another system, in another accoustic environment etc.. But eventually I got to the stage where I'm happy with my mixes. It took ages and monitors and good headphones were an essential element.

pitchdrifter · Post by **pitchdrifter** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:21 pm

With decent monitors you have a better chance, what you absolutely need though is ears trained to the monitoring system you use, and 'fresh' and objective ones.
Listening to a mix on systems you don't know inside out just confuses the hell out of you, I'd recommend not to do that. If its your own car stereo and your ears are used to that - thats ok. But don't make the mistake to listen on a system you don't know, then change your mix based on that, because your ears haven't learned which flaws are the system's fault and which are your mix'es faults. That problem doesn't occur when your ears and brain already know a system (e.g. your monitors) and filter out it's flaws so you only hear the problems your mix has.
Thats why its so important to learn your monitors.. to listen to well mixed music on them, and to have fresh ears.

Markus

Beardedone · Post by **Beardedone** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:25 pm

Thanks xRavenx. That is solid advice. Know what your monitors can do with familiar well mixed material before working on your own.

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:29 pm

I will add that I am familiar with all of the systems that I audition, as I have owned most of the equipment for 5-10 years...

kovacs · Post by **kovacs** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:35 pm

Wopelka wrote:i'm disappointed, i'm even discouraged...

time to get some decent monitors ?
time to get some decent monitors!...

For what it's worth, I really like the songs you've submitted in the monthly KVR contests.

DwarfNebula · Post by **DwarfNebula** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:41 pm

xRAVENx wrote: ... what you absolutely need though is ears trained to the monitoring system you use, and 'fresh' and objective ones.
Listening to a mix on systems you don't know inside out just confuses the hell out of you, .....

Thats why its so important to learn your monitors.. to listen to well mixed music on them, and to have fresh ears.

100%.
it took me month to get used to my headphones (i cant use speakers most of the time) and my mixes were shite as you described (boomy, muddy, just bad - i deleted a lot of the older stuff, coz it wasnt just the mix but also the sounds i used

).
for shure, i check the mix on my hifi (and on the hifi at a friends house) and in my car. then, sum minor adjustments - thats it.

jens · Post by **jens** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:18 pm

Wopelka, it just takes time and more time and even more time - mixing skills don't come to you from one day to the other - b.t.w.: I don't think your mixes are too bad

You should get good monitors though - I couldn't afford myself most of what you can buy and I read a lot of tests and after that came to the conclusion that for little money the Alesis M mkII passive are the best bet. You can get them for 150euros nowadays and they
have a pro quality.

http://www.netzmarkt.de/thomann/alesis_ ... dinfo.html

edit: here's the product's page in french

http://www.netzmarkt.de/thomann/thoiw9_ ... dinfo.html

Manc Chris · Post by **Manc Chris** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:21 pm

Great tip in this months FM mag.

Get an old ghetto blaster and keep it next to your monitors. When you begin mastering, keep referencing a commercial similar sounding CD. Pay particular attention to the bass, generally, this is where home masters fall down.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:22 pm

I try and use my monitors for all my listening; I need to sort out a slightly better cable routing, but basically a lot of the time my CD player is routed into my mixer so its got the same signal chain as my soundcard.

Wopelka · Post by **Wopelka** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:27 pm

thanks to all who replied to this thread so far.

great tips and nice encouragements

soultrane · Post by **soultrane** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:42 pm

hey, if you're trying to get a clearer mix, here's a tip;

realize that every instrument source you use, whether it's a guitar, vst synth, piano or keyboard, etc., uses more frequencies/space than necessary in the full mix.

in other words, those frequencies that make an instrument sound great, i.e., full, thick, etc., have to be trimmed/attenuated when mixed with other instruments, otherwise, all of these sounds fight each other for space, and voila! muddy mix.

so, b4 getting some new monitors, try this;

a) get a good spectrum analyzer... there's free ones out there that do the job.

b) listen to your favorite records thru your daw, not just "listening" to them but "watching" them as well on the spectrum analyzer.

c) compare the curve with your own mix. guaranteed the curve is gonna look alot different, and yours is gonna be very flat at the top and too round and full in the low mids / lows.

d) try and get your curve to look like the pro mix, NOT by popping in eq on the master bus, but by going back into your instruments and cutting offending frequencies where the buildup is.

e) remember, getting an instrument to "fit" in a mix means it might sound alot different (i.e. brighter, thinner, etc.) than it would plaed solo.

and don't forget the importance of proper panning, as well...

as for getting new monitors... if you're monitors are really bad, yah... but, are they really worse than ns10m's? yet every great record ever made, practically, was mixed on those.

it's not WHAT monitors, but how good you know them that makes a dif, imo...