Wavesfactory Spectre - Multi-band Enhancer

[imrae]

Do you understand the differences between multiband compression amd dynamic EQ? There is already a lot written/discussed about that, and it is essentially the same difference.

(The main issue is phase shift at the crossovers, even for dry signal. There are ways around it but I don't know if any multiband distortion uses them.)

[foosnark]

The main difference I see between Spectre and "multiband distortion" is Spectrum offers more freedom in placing the filters filters. You have complete control over frequency, Q and level; you can overlap bands, or skip part of the spectrum as desired. Band 3 doesn't care where bands 1, 2, 4 and 5 are.

With multiband distortion, you have more minimal control. You can usually adjust the crossover frequencies and sometimes slope, but the bands are always in the same order (low, middle, high), you can't overlap them more or leave gaps (without muting a band) etc.

In terms of phase artifacts, the way I use these tools I am rarely bothered (with either type of tool). In fact sometimes I take advantage of filters' phase shift by modulating frequencies with an LFO (or in hardware, at audio rate).

[Funky40]

My previous question was what are the functional differences in the sound between Spectre and a multiband distortion plugin.

Assuming both Spectre and generic multiband distortion plugin use the same distortion algorithm, and both use oversampling, would there be any other difference between the two?

They have the information somewhere on theyr page ( marketing blah) Edit: see the quoted below !
i stumbled over it the other day.
IIRC do they work based on a "difference signal".

Apply a EQ ( iirc, 5 bands possible).
Then it will create the difference signal. (per band)
then it will apply the distortion to the difference signal Then mixing this back in.

I might be wrong ( so much information crossed my mind since) . Read it up yourself.
It soundet plausible to me, though.

I mean, thats a way to circumwent the filters and its side effects, no ?
quite clever in fact.
And as mentioend allready: quite plausible to me.

read up yourself, and bring back the quote here
Edit: ahhh wait: its in the first post of this very thread !! ...figure that, haha

HOW IT WORKS:
Spectre process the incoming audio with a five parallel band EQ, it extracts the difference between this signal and the dry input and process it through one of the eight saturation algorithms included, then it mixes it back with the dry signal. The result is a signal with character, full of color, with bigger and warmer low frequencies, shiny shimmering highs and powerful mids that any other processor just can’t give you.

edit: convinced, haha

whats the latency for realtime play uses ?

[plexuss]

Maybe its just the way my brain works but from what I hear with Sprecte I assumed it was aptly named. To me Spectre create a kind of "ghost" gleen/shimmer/sheen/veil in the bands that are active but with different "textures" depending on the model used. Like an "audio spectre". Thats how it works to my ears. YMMV

[MogwaiBoy]

I believe the reason they called it Spectre is because of the pre-emphasis parallel processing - you create a hole in the sound which is filled back with a harmonic 'image' (ghost) of what was there.

Sounds different to a regular multiband saturator like Saturn. Doesn't operate the same way (where are the crossovers / are there any at all?)

[LenR_here]

The main difference I see between Spectre and "multiband distortion" is Spectrum offers more freedom in placing the filters filters. You have complete control over frequency, Q and level; you can overlap bands, or skip part of the spectrum as desired. Band 3 doesn't care where bands 1, 2, 4 and 5 are.

With multiband distortion, you have more minimal control. You can usually adjust the crossover frequencies and sometimes slope, but the bands are always in the same order (low, middle, high), you can't overlap them more or leave gaps (without muting a band) etc.

In terms of phase artifacts, the way I use these tools I am rarely bothered (with either type of tool). In fact sometimes I take advantage of filters' phase shift by modulating frequencies with an LFO (or in hardware, at audio rate).

Mm this is a good response. You're right on multiband distortions not allowing you to overlap the distortion bands.

My previous question was what are the functional differences in the sound between Spectre and a multiband distortion plugin.

Assuming both Spectre and generic multiband distortion plugin use the same distortion algorithm, and both use oversampling, would there be any other difference between the two?

They have the information somewhere on theyr page ( marketing blah) Edit: see the quoted below !
i stumbled over it the other day.
IIRC do they work based on a "difference signal".

Apply a EQ ( iirc, 5 bands possible).
Then it will create the difference signal. (per band)
then it will apply the distortion to the difference signal Then mixing this back in.

I might be wrong ( so much information crossed my mind since) . Read it up yourself.
It soundet plausible to me, though.

I mean, thats a way to circumwent the filters and its side effects, no ?
quite clever in fact.
And as mentioend allready: quite plausible to me.

read up yourself, and bring back the quote here
Edit: ahhh wait: its in the first post of this very thread !! ...figure that, haha

HOW IT WORKS:
Spectre process the incoming audio with a five parallel band EQ, it extracts the difference between this signal and the dry input and process it through one of the eight saturation algorithms included, then it mixes it back with the dry signal. The result is a signal with character, full of color, with bigger and warmer low frequencies, shiny shimmering highs and powerful mids that any other processor just can’t give you.

edit: convinced, haha

whats the latency for realtime play uses ?

If you use EQ to extract the signal, the difference signal will contain the artifacts of the EQ as well (eg. if you use minimum phase filters, the phase shift will be in difference signal when you mix it back with the original). However, the phase shift is definitely not as intense for simple bell shaped EQ's compared to multiband crossovers, so this is another decent point in Spectre's favour; the final signal will have less artifacts.

[ElVincente]

I heard that multiband has the benefit of a fixed phase shift versus a moving one for the parallel dynamic eqs/sat. Not sure how to balance that because once you're applying treatment in the bands you still will could have some moving phase shift right ?

[Ploki]

I believe the reason they called it Spectre is because of the pre-emphasis parallel processing - you create a hole in the sound which is filled back with a harmonic 'image' (ghost) of what was there.

Sounds different to a regular multiband saturator like Saturn. Doesn't operate the same way (where are the crossovers / are there any at all?)

there aren't any crossovers

also to everyone obsessing about phaseshifts in this thread:
here i am slapping volcano with allpass filter on 65% of the masters i spit out.
sometimes even 48dB allpasses lmao
really guys, it's just (a) phase.

[MogwaiBoy]

Thanks for confirming, Plokiboy

Spectre = special. The sheeniest high shelf in digi-land. Love this thing. Top 5 Desert Island plugin.

[plexuss]

Thanks for confirming, Plokiboy

Spectre = special. The sheeniest high shelf in digi-land. Love this thing. Top 5 Desert Island plugin.

Process:audio Sugar is similar but different. More subtle but also effective.

[_leras]

Maybe its just the way my brain works but from what I hear with Sprecte I assumed it was aptly named. To me Spectre create a kind of "ghost" gleen/shimmer/sheen/veil in the bands that are active but with different "textures" depending on the model used. Like an "audio spectre". Thats how it works to my ears. YMMV

Well a distortion in specific bands, right?

So you can dial in into a sound to give a bit more presence to make it sit better in a mix. Just a bit more subtle than a full range distortion/saturation.

I sometimes have duplicated a track, distorted it, rolled of top and bottom and mixed it back in for more presence. Spectre is basically that rolled into a single plug in.

[MogwaiBoy]

I sometimes have duplicated a track, distorted it, rolled of top and bottom and mixed it back in for more presence. Spectre is basically that rolled into a single plug in.

Unless you introduce some phase inversion trickery, it's not the same as simple band-limited parallel processing:

"Spectre processes the difference between the input signal and the EQ signal."

It's the inversion/intentional phase cancellation that creates the ghost image (hence Spectre). That phase inverted signal gets saturated and the original signal is cancelled out, so you only get the saturation.

Spectre is more clever than just a multiband saturator with parallel mix control. Infact I don't know of any other saturator that works this way.

[Dr.Gunjah]

I've updated to the 1.5.6 version and still am getting the nan issue. It seems to happen totally randomly and only whenever I drag the Q or dB values with my mouse cursor. Thought this one would be fixed by now.

Almost a year later and apparently this bug is still there. Just downloaded the demo and got the nan issue on db and q settings a few times in 10 minutes. I only played around so I deleted the instance and started from scratch again but I can imagine this being a serious issue later to lose settings that took some time to dial in. Is there a way to "recover" when this happens?

[Igro]

Does anyone know how different is this to, say, Toneboosters Enhancer?