Muse - New 8-voice Synth from Moog!

[lfm]

I'm unusually prone to finger pain. I have to hugely limit my playing because of it. So, for me, the main factor in any keyboard is just how much pain it causes me, not how playable it is from a conventionally musical point of view. In that respect, the Matriarch keyboard is probably the single worst I have tried. I don't know why. It seems maybe to have a shallower draught than other keyboards, so your fingers hit the hard bottom sooner.

Sounds horrible.

Don't know if cronic joint issue already for you, but just thinking it might be wrong technique.

If so this might help


All about immediate release of tension in every hit of keys.

The more you play, the more important is this, not to cause injuries.

Sometimes you see keyboard players with such a bent and stiff fingerings that is all about power, full tension, it's painful to even watch.

[Torchlight]

The Matriarch has one of the best keybeds I’ve owned. True semi weighted, I hope the Muse has the same keyboard.

I'm unusually prone to finger pain. I have to hugely limit my playing because of it. So, for me, the main factor in any keyboard is just how much pain it causes me, not how playable it is from a conventionally musical point of view. In that respect, the Matriarch keyboard is probably the single worst I have tried. I don't know why. It seems maybe to have a shallower draught than other keyboards, so your fingers hit the hard bottom sooner.

Have you ever played a MatrixBrute or original PolyBrute? You might like the keybed.

No, never tried. I was thinking of the new Polybrute though.

[Torchlight]

I'm unusually prone to finger pain. I have to hugely limit my playing because of it. So, for me, the main factor in any keyboard is just how much pain it causes me, not how playable it is from a conventionally musical point of view. In that respect, the Matriarch keyboard is probably the single worst I have tried. I don't know why. It seems maybe to have a shallower draught than other keyboards, so your fingers hit the hard bottom sooner.

Sounds horrible.

Don't know if cronic joint issue already for you, but just thinking it might be wrong technique.

If so this might help


All about immediate release of tension in every hit of keys.

The more you play, the more important is this, not to cause injuries.

Sometimes you see keyboard players with such a bent and stiff fingerings that is all about power, full tension, it's painful to even watch.

Thanks, I'll take a look at that. I did just teach myself to play so maybe it does have something to do with poor technique. But I think it must be more than that.

[Dumpster Fire]

Cool talking point, not this time though. My experience with them and their emulations started and ended with the Memorymoog. I've owned a Memorymoog since I was 18, bought it with the 2k inheritance I got when my grandmother died. I got very excited for an even half assed decent emulation, it's not even close. It's so far off that I have zero interest in any claim they ever make about anything. I'm not talking slightly different, without any hyperbole the only similarity Cherrys MM has to a real MM is the layout. The oscillators, filters and even the voice modulation, none of it sounds anything like a Memorymoog. It's an absolute shit show of an emulation.

Again you would have much better luck with Arturia, U-He or IMO pretty much any other developer of emulations. I don't mind and own Dreamsynth but their emulation tech is just not very good at all. There are settings on the MM emulation that sound like white noise, whereas a similar setting on a real MM sounds like a modular patch.

I own most of the Cherry Audio plugins (along with Arturia, Softube, u-he, et al plugins) simply because I'm a "plugin hoarder" and get suckered in like everyone else by a GUI that looks like the original synth. Although I don't currently own any of the originals to compare them directly, I have either owned or at least played many of the original synths in the distant past and feel like the Cherry Audio plugins capture at least some of the essence of these hardware synths.

For instance, I was quite surprised by the Starsky Starr comparison video between the Cherry Audio Mercury 6 plugin and the hardware Jupiter 6. The plugin and the hardware unit sound remarkably similar in a lot of instances, although Starsky Carr might not be "stress testing" the two synths as hard as some people might like.

So to say that Cherry Audio emulations are universally "garbage" isn't fair, IMO. I think Cherry Audio are offering inexpensive emulations to people who might not even be able to afford the pricier Arturia, Softube, and u-he plugins let alone the original hardware synths. I think a more penetrating criticism to levy against Cherry Audio (and Arturia, Softube, and u-he to a lesser degree) is why they don't develop more original synths vs emulations.

But getting back to the Memorymoog emulation, I would need to hear a detailed comparison between the plugin and the hardware synth to have a more informed opinion.

[machinesworking]

But getting back to the Memorymoog emulation, I would need to hear a detailed comparison between the plugin and the hardware synth to have a more informed opinion.

I can only inform, I obviously cannot convince. This is the simple fact, side by side comparisons between a real MM and the Cherry one are so bad I am permanently soured to any of their emulations. I think in the past when computers were incapable of proper emulations it was a passable thing to get "close", but the Cherry MM isn't even close.

There are hundreds of analog emulations out there at this point, so IMO it's time to stop pretending that close is good enough, we're swamped with mediocre attempts.

Cherry do just fine with Dreamsynth and some string machine emus, but I'm not buying their emulations.

[Dumpster Fire]

I can only inform, I obviously cannot convince. This is the simple fact, side by side comparisons between a real MM and the Cherry one are so bad I am permanently soured to any of their emulations. I think in the past when computers were incapable of proper emulations it was a passable thing to get "close", but the Cherry MM isn't even close.

There are hundreds of analog emulations out there at this point, so IMO it's time to stop pretending that close is good enough, we're swamped with mediocre attempts.

Cherry do just fine with Dreamsynth and some string machine emus, but I'm not buying their emulations.

I get it and completely agree. Just because a plugin GUI sort of looks like the original synth doesn't mean that the plugin actually sounds like the original synth. That's true in 99% of cases where the "authentic-looking" plugin falls short of the hardware, soundwise. For instance, I owned a hardware Korg Mono/Poly back in the day and the Korg Mono/Poly plugin is a joke by comparison, IMO. It has none of the "heft" and "weight" of the original synth (and that wasn't a particularly beefy-sounding synth to begin with). I would way rather have the Behringer MonoPoly clone.

All I'm saying is that some of the Cherry Audio emulations are better than others. Not all of them are utter garbage, IMO, even if they don't entirely measure up to the originals.

[Jim Roseberry]

Moog Muse supposed to arrive within the next couple hours.
First thing I'm going to check is intonation.
If anything like Moog One, that's a non-starter.
Optimistic... but not going to deal with flaky performance/behavior.

Got the PolyBrute 12 to compare them side-by-side.
C'mon FedEX!

[Uncle E]

Do the full tuning routine as soon as it's warmed up. Apparently this is an issue.

[ghettosynth]

Moog Muse supposed to arrive within the next couple hours.
First thing I'm going to check is intonation.
If anything like Moog One, that's a non-starter.
Optimistic... but not going to deal with flaky performance/behavior.

Got the PolyBrute 12 to compare them side-by-side.
C'mon FedEX!

Cmon FedEX!

We expect a full report.

[zerocrossing]

…I'm not talking slightly different, without any ehyperbole the only similarity Cherrys MM has to a real MM is the layout. The oscillators, filters and even the voice modulation, none of it sounds anything like a Memorymoog. It's an absolute shit show of an emulation.

The plugin and the hardware unit sound remarkably similar in a lot of instances, although Starsky Carr might not be "stress testing" the two synths as hard as some people might like.

That’s the thing, though. You can take almost any two synths that have similar feature sets and get them to sound sort of like same. A good “stress test,” can be something very simple. In the case of the Minimoog Model D, simply modulating the filter with oscillator 3 at audio rate will reveal a lot about how much an emulation can sound like the original. It’s not a weird or exotic concept.

One thing that will keep plugins behind a synth like the Muse is its dual filter architecture. From my experience, the only dual filter plugin that achieves a decent analog emulation is Korg’s 2600, and it’s obviously not a Moog emulator. It’s pretty CPU intensive if you start running it in polyphonic mode.

[egbert101]

Moog Muse supposed to arrive within the next couple hours.
First thing I'm going to check is intonation.
If anything like Moog One, that's a non-starter.
Optimistic... but not going to deal with flaky performance/behavior.

Got the PolyBrute 12 to compare them side-by-side.
C'mon FedEX!

Both are way too expensive for me, but would be interested in your thoughts and comparisons.

[Jim Roseberry]

Moog Muse didn't actually arrive till about 6pm yesterday.
For me the single most important factor, does it have intonation issues?
Turned Muse on and let it warm up. A few voices were a bit out of tune.
Read the manual and decided to run the Quick Calibration (and it's super quick).
Voila! Muse intonation has been rock-solid since.
In fact, I'm finding lower-end notes hold intonation better than on the PolyBrute 12.
Not that the PolyBrute 12 has a big issue there (it's nothing like Moog One or it would already be gone).

I've just programmed my first basic Sawtooth comp.
This is a sound I'd use to play Turn Up The Radio, Don't Tell Me You Love Me, Let's Go Crazy, etc.
With two oscillators, it sounds HUGE.

I've got a lot of experimenting to do... but first impression is that THIS (with 16 voices) is what I wanted Moog One to be.
I'm pretty sure this one's a keeper.

The keybeds on PolyBrute 12 and Muse have a similar feel.
If you're used to playing full-sized 88-key keyboards, Muse keys will be a quicker adjustment.
PolyBrute 12's keys are a bit more slim (kind of like Yamaha 61 and 76 key keyboards).
If you're into playing fast fiddly runs, you can move faster (easier) on the PolyBrute 12's keybed.
By comparison, Muse's keybed is just the slightest bit sluggish.
Note that I'm talking subtle differences. You can still play fast on the Muse.

Aftertouch on the Muse is OK.
I'd rate it similar to Aftertouch on the 3rd Wave.
Not amazing... but not bad

One thing that's really nice on the PolyBrute 12:
Holding the Settings button and manipulating any knob/button/slider marked with "o" immediately jumps the display to deeper features.
On Muse, each module has a dedicated "page-jump" button.
Thus far, I prefer the PolyBrute's UI. Arturia makes slightly better use of the display.
IMO, Both synths could use a larger display.

I'm coming at these synths with a slight bent towards live use.
From a size/weight perspective, Muse is a bit smaller and definitely lighter.

One thing I like about PolyBrute 12 is that Arturia has taken a "classic" analog synth... and given it modern practical/useful appointments (Modulation, Delay, Reverb, a basic EQ, and more advanced controllers).
Moog One effects were (to my ears) disappointing. Aside from the Delay, I didn't use any of the onboard effects.
Muse just has the Diffusion Delay.
That's certainly better than nothing, but useable Modulation, Reverb, etc would have been nice.

At some point, with limited space (and not wanting live cartage to get absurd), I'll have to make decisions on practicality. ie: If I keep both, something/s will have to move on (to free up space and funds).

If anyone was disappointed by Moog One, check out Muse.
It's lacking some of the One's more advanced features... but the basics (IMO) are actually better sounding.

More to come as time allows...

[_leras]

Nice write up. Enjoy!

[egbert101]

Some might find this comparison between Muse and Trigon-6 useful:

[zerocrossing]

Some might find this comparison between Muse and Trigon-6 useful:

The Muse clearly sounds better, until the times when it sounds worse.