Kilohearts Updates the Entire Kilohearts Ecosystem to v2 - Including Phase Plant

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Phase Plant

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limitlesssss wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2024 3:44 am

• 4 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -124dB.
• 8 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -119dB.
• 16 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -113dB.
• 32 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -107dB.
• 64 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -101dB.
• 128 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -95.8dB.
• 256 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -89.8dB.
• 512 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -83.8dB.
• 1024 kHs Gain plug-ins only null down to -77.8dB.

Bro, your test is seriously flawed. Did you know that 16 bit export has a fixed noise floor of -96dB, and this noise floor cannot be raised by compressors or limiters, no matter how many you used in the project before exporting the audio? It's fixed. -3dB gain on one channel and +3dB on another channel is even a flawed way to do null test.

Also, you put 128 khs gain on a single channel. Come on bro, among all the major DAWs out there, how many of them allow more than 15 effects on a single channel? You are lucky to be using Reaper which is not limited in this area, but practically who would use 512 plugins on a single channel? The DAWs out there don't even allow that, even if you have one that allows that, your null test is done wrongly, the overall exported file in 16bit will have a 16-bit fixed noise floor, which is -96dB. If you export audio you synthesised in a DAW to 16-bit and re-import and duplicate and invert polarity, it will have 16bit fixed noise floor regardless of whether the synthesized audio had 10000 khs gain plugin inserted on its channel before original export. It's a fixed -96dB, never forget that. Overly increasing the gain on a channel leads to clipping distortion in the exported 16-bit file, but that is a different thing from bit depth and its noise floor.

I'm surprised you are even complaining about a plugin's 32 bit depth operation when the old gees from decades ago have given us classics, with their imperfect gadgets, that we are still listening to and enjoying today. See, that's the problem with engineers today; seeing everything through the eyes of engineering sometimes rob you of the enjoyment of your own craft. You have to losen up a bit and see and listen to your audio from a consumer's perspective. That's where the true enjoyment is. All the producers and engineers out there, if you were to ask them if there is still something they would like to fix in their already released song, they will definitely pinpoint a part they taught was not fully done. When it comes to audio, always pursuing 100 percent perfection through iron clad rules robs you of the enjoyment of your music and meeting your projects' deadlines.

Finally, we are in 2024, and guys like the developers of Reaper have made it so easy to deal with noise floor. It's not even compulsory to add dithering, all you have to do is to shape the noise floor to push it out of the audible frequency range. So in Reaper's render settings, you leave dithering off, and just turn the shape on, this way you are not adding dithering noise to replace the noise floor, you have rather shaped the file's original noise floor out of the audible frequency range. And then when you re-import that 16-bit file, duplicate, invert polarity, do a null test, and it's now way below -100dB. And anything below -100dB is inaudible to humans. [Period].

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Sorry, you're late to the party. The following link is the main thread for that discussion:

viewtopic.php?t=612488

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limitlesssss wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:56 am Sorry, you're late to the party. The following link is the main thread for that discussion:

viewtopic.php?t=612488
Alright, then you should also do justice to some of the posts here indicating by edits to future viewers of the misunderstanding. Kilohearts don't deserve to lose customers over this. They helped some of us become what we are today through their high quality plugins.
Last edited by Windows on Fri Oct 17, 2025 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dwomoh wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:26 am
limitlesssss wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:56 am Sorry, you're late to the party. The following link is the main thread for that discussion:

viewtopic.php?t=612488
Alright, then you should also do justice to some of the posts here indicating by edits to future viewers of the misunderstanding. Kilohearts don't deserve to lose customers over this. They helped some of us become what we are today through their high quality plugins.
And if you don't mind, I will still post my answer there and let the others comment where they disagree. Others too may learn.
Of course I don't mind sir. You're free to post wherever you want.

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Oh and this is the added EDIT to my original post in said thread:
EDIT: I changed the title of this thread, because I now understand the bit-transparent issue was caused by rounding error between positive and negative values and not an inherent problem with Kilohearts plug-ins themselves, and therefore it would be unfair to Kilohearts (arguably the greatest audio developers) to leave such a title on.

So please keep that in mind when you read this thread. Thank you.

I ❤️ Kilohearts.

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wait so am i okay to use them now because i’ve got a project idea ready to go but i don’t want to look like an idiot when the 600 gain plugins i plan on throwing on my kick drum give me some screwy noise floor. please advise

also idk how you expect all us no nothing idiot amateurs to ever grow beyond making songs for our grandmas in garage band when we can’t even trust the pros that are here berating us to have their shit together. i guess when you’re a pro the part of your brain that handles math sometimes falls out of your amazing ears.

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StuSmith wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 10:25 am Kilohearts has announced a significant free update to the entire Kilohearts Ecosystem of plugins with the release of Kilohearts v2.
===========================
Two Requests from the Kilohearts Team:
===========================

Dear Kilohearts,

==========
Suggestion 01:
==========

Request for a New Mediator Snapin that Can Host (or Point to) Third-Party Plug-ins:

Is it possible to develop a new utility snapin (let's call it Mediator for now) whose sole job is to either host a third-party plug-in inside itself, or if that's not possible, point to it by routing the audio and modulation to said third-party plug-in, and then receive the resulting signal?

So for example, you load this “Mediator” snapin inside Multipass. It then hosts a third-party plug-in like FabFilter Saturn (or again, if hosting is not possible, points to FabFilter Saturn which is hosted outside Kilohearts ecosystem). Then using Multipass modulation section, you modulate the Mediator knobs, which in turn modulate FabFilter Saturn knobs. The resulting signal will then be sent back to Mediator, which is then sent to the next snapin in the chain.

Kilohearts is already in a league of its own, but such a snapin can make it Bitwig-level versatile.

Something like this: See if you can spot the Mediator snapin

Image

==========
Suggestion 02:
==========

Request to Make Delay/Dual Delay Snapins Infinitely More Powerful:

Is it possible to add the ability to insert/nest other snapins inside Delay/Dual Delay's feedback loop?

Imagine for instance, nesting Distortion snapin (or even Snap Heap/Multipass) inside Delay's feedback loop, so each loop is sent to Distortion snapin and then sent back to the Delay's feedback loop (and this cycle keeps repeating) for ultimate mayhem.

This is what Bitwig's Delay effects are capable of. They have an (FB FX) section, so the user can insert any other effect they want inside the delay's feedback loop (with latency compensation).

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MTS-ESP? Does it have it? I'd like that.
Don't F**K with Mr. Zero.

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