Intel 14th/13th gen, latency/stability issues?

[JerGoertz]

Thanks for the info!

[uOpt]

The overdone voltage is one thing.

The oxidation issue is quite another. You don't know whether it will continue after lowering the voltage.

[Zombie Queen]

Word is, oxidation is no longer an issue, it was supposedly 13th gen only and limited batch.

[uOpt]

Word is, oxidation is no longer an issue, it was supposedly 13th gen only and limited batch.

That is what Intel said. I am not overly convinced.

Reason why I'm not convinced is that these CPUs keep snapping into being unreliable. In the datacenter stats.

[Zombie Queen]

That is what Intel said. I am not overly convinced.

Actually I didn't see any word from Intel on that, apart from admitting there was an issue. It was a in a video in this channel:
Someone from Intel told that to the guy who runs the channel, unofficially and secretly, I think the claim was it was only one of the factories and long fixed. But as everything with Intel now, a rumor and a mystic mystery.

[Jim Roseberry]

I've had to replace two defective 13900k CPUs. (Haven't replaced any 13700k or 13600k CPUs)
Haven't had to replace any 14th Gen CPUs.
That's out of scores of machines.

Proper configuration is important... and especially so if dealing with high-performance (high heat) scenarios.


BTW, the new AMD 9950x is running well. Been testing it the past few days.
Delivers performance equal to the 14900k... at lower TDP.
You still want large top-tier AIO (I'm using 420mm).
Under stress-test type loads (video rendering, Cinebench, OCCT, etc), it runs noticeably quieter (vs 14900k).
Working with audio... it runs very quiet (as does the 14900k).

Downside is that the 9950x costs about $150 more than the 14900k... and the equivalent high-end motherboard is about $50 more.

[uOpt]

That is what Intel said. I am not overly convinced.

Actually I didn't see any word from Intel on that, apart from admitting there was an issue. It was a in a video in this channel:
Someone from Intel told that to the guy who runs the channel, unofficially and secretly, I think the claim was it was only one of the factories and long fixed. But as everything with Intel now, a rumor and a mystic mystery.

Intel did a mumble-confirm on some oxidation issue on reddit or their forum. Forgot where. That's where they said it was only certain batches in the past. But nothing specific such as batch information that would allow you to figure whether your CPU belongs to that batch.

[Pictus]

Downside is that the 9950x costs about $150 more than the 14900k... and the equivalent high-end motherboard is about $50 more.

The B650E Taichi Lite is a good less expensive EATX motherboard with strong VRM, 8 PCB layers
and one Thunderbolt port.
The yellow USB ports(Lightning Gaming) are good for audio interfaces, someone tested with RME.

[Jim Roseberry]

Downside is that the 9950x costs about $150 more than the 14900k... and the equivalent high-end motherboard is about $50 more.

The B650E Taichi Lite is a good less expensive EATX motherboard with strong VRM, 8 PCB layers
and one Thunderbolt port.
The yellow USB ports(Lightning Gaming) are good for audio interfaces, someone tested with RME.

Using an Asus ROG Crosshair X670E Hero (equivalent to what I run with the 14900k):
Five internal M.2 SSDs
Dual Thunderbolt-4
Two USB-C (1x 20Gb, 1x 10Gb)
Eight 10Gb USB type A
2.5Gb LAN
WiFi 6E

Can run "The Grandeur" at 96k using a 48-sample ASIO buffer size (just under 1ms response time).
You can step on the sustain pedal... gliss up/down an 88-key controller... and the audio is completely clean.

[Zombie Queen]

Well, 14700k is now less than half the price I paid 3 month ago. 14900k is 2/3 of that price. I always do business like that.

[anoise]

If the CPU works without issues, just don't check the prices and enjoy it.

[Zombie Queen]

I didn't check them... They just popped out in an ad. Just to note, the whole affair seems to really have impact on pricing. I don't remember CPU devaluating that fast. When I was shopping 14700, 13700 was priced nearly the same, and 12700 was like 20% cheaper. And now, next gen isn't even out yet...

[anoise]

Here, in December 2023 it was ~480 Eur, now it's ~440 Eur. Not a massive discount. I bough it way cheaper than that in December from 2nd hand.

[Zombie Queen]

I noticed that ASUS x129 bios is no longer beta, so I went for the update. Also watched this:



Which is basically a proposition of a basic safe and efficient ASUS BIOS config for people who want a peace of mind. Stretched to half feature movie format... I applied that and I got similar (slightly better) results, as using when SVID behavior option in older BIOS, while keeping CEP enabled.

If you don't want to watch the hour long documentary, here's my summary:

• Flash BIOS (it took awfully long with couple restarts on the way).
• Load default settings (F5)
• Look at "Extreme tweaker" section...
• "Performance preferences" should be set to "Intel default"...
• "ASUS Multicore Enhancement" should be disabled...
• Change "SVID behavior" to "Auto", I think it is being set to "Intel failsafe" after loading defaults. So, this is apparently covert-up undervolting, by modifying/modulating ACDC load lines, it requires disabling CEP, or performance will be cut in half. "Auto" is actually "disable the feature".
• Now into "DIGI+ VRM" submenu...
• Set "CPU load line calibration" to "Level 6", which is author's explicit recommendation. In my older BIOS it was at Level 3...
• Right below, set "Synch ACDC loadline with VRM loadline" to "enabled", this will automatically set load lines according to calibration level you chose above...
• Up one level and into "CPU Power Management" submenu...
• Make sure "IA AC load line" and "IA DC load line" are set to "Auto"...
• Make sure "IA CEP" is enabled.
• If you don't quite trust x129's 1.55v limit is enough, you can set "IA VR voltage limit", like "1400" which equals "1.4v". Both limits can get a bit of overshoots. It's also possible to go manually over the limit by setting actual voltage higher...
• Now see if it's stable. And undervolt...
• "Extreme tweaker" section, at bottom, "Global core SVID voltage" set to "adaptive"...
• "Offset mode sign" set to "-", that's for undervolting, it set to "+" it would be overvolting.
• "Offset voltage", find how much can you undervolt, which depends on particular CPU/mobo. It would be about "0.1v". Cinebench R15 is a good test (prone to crash with too much undervolt), a game with unreal engine possibly better. For my 14700k SP76, threshold was 0.12, anything below would crash R15, settled on 0.11 for now. R15 score is about 5600, R23 about 35k, max SVID recorded in HWinfo just below 1.3v (remember that it is very unlikely to detect spikes).
• Note on Cinebench R15, W10 initially decided that it is a background task and would only run it on e-cores, which seems to be a common problem. Solution: CMD with admin rights, then: powercfg /powerthrottling disable /path "your path to\CINEBENCH Windows 64 Bit.exe"

Thoughts?

[planet_b]

The situation is very complicated due to different motherboard manufacturers BIOS differences. As it's been noted on many forums, if you flash 0x129 BIOS and then put back all your previous BIOS tweaks, it might not give you the protection from degrading. As only the "Intel" profile have the voltage protection active.

Also yesterday it was posted on Reddit, that Intel is currently out of replacement CPU's for RMA process. :O