Hydrasynth vs Argon8

[swilow11]

Trying to decide between Hydrasynth Explorer and the Argon 8. To those who have played with both, or either, please expound upon the good and bad of either. Or suggest something else. I'm also looking at the Blofeld but less enamoured of this than the aforementioned. Having keys is important although I have multiple midi controllers but nothing with poly aftertouch which would be nice bit isn't essential.

Basically I want a wavetable synth with decent modulation options (but will mainly run it through Bitwig which gives me a lot of further modulation options). Mainly going to be making psytrance, so the ability to FM oscillators and deploy randomness is vital. Not likely to use the synth for bass but snappy envelopes would be fine. Also make ambient/cinematoc stuff, so nice pads and whatnot too. I currently own and use the Microfreak but find it slightly too limited, and my preferred soft synths are Serum, Hive2, TALMOD, Falcon, and Massive X. Analogue sound is not a priority but being able to do some semi VA stuff would be good.

Please share your thoughts and suggestions

[christian f.]

Unless you REALLY want a hardware synth, I would skip on both of these.
I've tried the Argon and returned it quickly and I still have a Hydrasynth that I never use.
Your soft synths and MF sound better and are more useful IMHO.

[kritikon]

I don't have those 2 synths, but what you describe seems to be exactly what Korg Modwave does in spades. Wavetables, shitloads of modulation including that lovely X/Y pad, capable of quite complex sounds, all with the usual superb Korg filters and FX. I can't speak highly enough of recent Korg synths - I can vouch that Wavestate and Opsix are almost unbeatably powerful in their own fields and I'd be surprised if Modwave isn't the same.

[KBSoundSmith]

I previously had considered the same question (Hyrda vs Argon8 vs Blofeld) and I got an Argon8 and I'm quite happy with it. With that said...

ANY SYNTH IS ONLY AS GOOD AS ITS FIT FOR YOUR PARTICULAR STUDIO

I STARTED THE SEARCH LOOKING FOR A MIDI CONTROLLER, but I vehemently begrudged buying a piece of plastic that didn't make any sounds of its own. Especially when a used synth is about the same price. My 88-key hammer action keyboard doesn't have pitchbend/modwheel, and I'm not upgrading the board for just those -- and to get a better keybed/action than I have now would be more money than I'm willing to spend at this time. So, a used synth with good MIDI control became the project.

Ultimately, I was looking for the following:

• Good expressive capabilities (eg aftertouch, Modwheel/joystick, expression pedal, etc)
• Close to knob-per-function
• A synth engine balancing variety of sound and synthesis methods against simplicity and ease of use (I have soft synths for complexity of features)
• Relatively small
• Built like a tank
• Could be obtained inexpensively (HW Synth definitely a "want" and not a "need")
• Good connectivity/interaction with computer
• Can be programmed away from computer when I don't want to look at a bloody screen

Overall, while the Hyrdasynth has polyaftertouch, I was not getting an overall good impression when reading about other people's experiences with the feel of the keybed or its overall build quality. The Blofeld Keys is larger than what I was looking for and was more expensive than the other two at the time I was looking, so I eliminated it rather early (even though positive things are said about its keys -- and complexity of the synth engine is in between Argon8 and Hydra and closer to Hydra, Argon8 being the simplest). The Argon8 build quality is great (don't be tricked by the endless encoders "feeling" loose, they're designed for longevity), it has a Fatar keyboard, a Joystick which is actually really nice to use, expression and sustain pedal connectivity, etc.

To reiterate, I didn't need a complex synth. For me, it came down to which of them I thought I would best be able to physically interact with as an expressive instrument. And the winner of that was Argon8. And its computer integration is great, the ModalApp and the VST App are very nice. The overall user experience is quite pleasant. The Argon8 is close to knob-per-function with a small number of very easy to remember shift commands. You can program it directly on the hardware without fuss - or if connected to your computer, directly from the ModalAPP/VST.

I have many good soft synths, many which offer more complexity than a hardware synth can accommodate without becoming a bloated, expensive behemoth that's a PITA to program. And I do not believe that a Hardware Synth magically gives you a better sound quality than soft synths because it is hardware. They're fun to use and the physical interaction with the sound can be inspiring. But soft synths sound great, you are giving up nothing by using them. If you have Massive X, you already have an amazing sounding synth. To echo a previous poster, I don't think Hyrda, Argon8, or Blofeld are going to add anything in either variety or quality of sound that your soft synths aren't already capable of covering.

Regarding the sound of Hydrasynth, I've heard mixed reviews on it. Some think it can be coaxed into good territory, others think it's thin and shrill. I've no doubt it comes down to how well you can program a patch. But, I didn't like the number of bugs people were complaining about.

Argon8 met fair criticism for deficiencies upon release, but Modal released several updates which fixed all issues and greatly amplified the usability and sound design potential of the synth. It's never going to be someone's fetish item (which, IMO, is an undeserved status for any synth), but I think it's a solid synth. If you can't get professional results with it, that's not the fault of the synth.

Lastly, I wanted to quickly touch on your desire for FM, semi-VA, cinematic pads, etc. Argon8 does all of those things. The FM is simple, since its just oscillator 1 and 2 -- but you get variety depending upon the waveforms and osc modes you choose. Plus, LFO 2 can be used as an audio-rate modifier. But you are not going to get the amount of FM that you would get with Hyrdasynth (or your soft synths). After all of the updates, it is capable of pretty good VA, the latest updates really helped pull it all together. Cinematic Pads are probably some of Argon8's biggest strengths.

To put it as short and clearly as possible, think of Argon8 as being a slightly simplified and reworked Serum which has been given a sequencer and placed into robust hardware form with really nice MIDI and computer interaction. Whether or not that is what you are looking for is up to you.

[swilow11]

Thanks for the thought, guys. Totally valid points re: softsynths doing what this sort of hardware can do but better, but there is of course the tactile joy of twiddling knobs and I'm a dude, gadgets (and knobs hmm) have inherent appeal. It's also nice to be able to do music/sound stuff without staring at a computer, too. It's one of the reasons I've enjoyed the Microfreak- it doesn't feature much in my actual music but being able to sit on the couch and create some cool sequences and stuff while watching I dunno MMA is great

I decided to take the plunge on the Argon8- got a good price for it and can always sell if I end up not jiving with it...

[DMG68]

I have the Cobalt 8 and I think (hope) you’ll be happy with the Modal. They are nice synths to work with, in my experience, portability is great for taking it around the house and noodling. The updates have added a lot to them. Now that Modal is back in business, maybe there’s more to come for Argon and Cobalt, hard to say though, not sure what else they’d add or are able to add to them…some more options for modulation would be good, like being able to assign the filter env to other things than just the filter.

[cryophonik]

Looks like I'm a little late to the party here, but it's still food for thought re: the MicroFreak. I owned a MicroFreak for a bit and it was cool, but I agree that it was too limited for my uses, so I sold it a few years ago. But, I picked up a MiniFreak last year and it's a whole other beast that I would highly recommend. I'm not a big psytrance producer, but the MiniFreak seems like it would be very useful for that style.

[swilow11]

Looks like I'm a little late to the party here, but it's still food for thought re: the MicroFreak. I owned a MicroFreak for a bit and it was cool, but I agree that it was too limited for my uses, so I sold it a few years ago. But, I picked up a MiniFreak last year and it's a whole other beast that I would highly recommend. I'm not a big psytrance producer, but the MiniFreak seems like it would be very useful for that style.

It was definitely on the short list. Honestly what turned me off it was the fact I could buy it as a VST for a fraction of the price- my GAS was getting impeded by rationality. But the Minifreak does sound great and you're right, it would be perfect for psytrance...

[KBSoundSmith]

Congrats on the purchase, hope it works out for you. If you have questions about the Argon8, feel free to ask.

Separately, the minifreak has some appeal for sure, but I think the physical differences (full size keys, metal, expression pedal, etc) are in Argon8's favor, at least for me. I can see some value in having both a HW and VST version of the same synth though, work away from the computer and upload/download patches. Guess it depends upon how much you like the synth engine.

[swilow11]

Congrats on the purchase, hope it works out for you. If you have questions about the Argon8, feel free to ask.

Nice, thankyou- I'm sure I will have questions. Received the unit yesterday, got it set up and had a nice jam last night. Very easy to navigate, knob per function-ish is great, the Modal app is useful but sort of defeats the purpose....and the main thing, this sounds wonderful. Digital and glassy to be sure but that's not a problem for me with this. Made some really nice basic pads, FX seem decent although most likely will run through my too many plugins but good to throw on a preset and save a bit of DSP for other things.

But cheers for all the advice and you better believe I'll be asking for more

[swilow11]

Really loving Argon8 so far. All the osc mods sound pretty gnarly, and despite having relatively limited wavetables to draw on, what is included are extremely usable and interesting.

One complaint is volume decrease when applying FX. There is also a utility FX which I'm guessing allows one to dial back in a bit of volume but that's a waste of a slot so... Easily enough rectified in the DAW but an odd issue imo.

Presets range from meh to decent but I generally roll my own so all good. But it's nice to have interesting presets to get an understanding of the synths capabilities...

If anyone knows of any good preset banks to purchase, let me know!

[KBSoundSmith]

One complaint is volume decrease when applying FX. There is also a utility FX which I'm guessing allows one to dial back in a bit of volume but that's a waste of a slot so... Easily enough rectified in the DAW but an odd issue imo.

That's one of the things Modal addressed in a Firmware update. They added a Patch Gain option. Two ways to access it:

1. Enter Menu, go to Audio -> Patch Gain
2. Hold down button "Patch" and turn the knob "Master Gain" to adjust Patch Gain.

BTW, the Patch button was given additional functionality as a Shift command. Other things it accesses, off the top of my head, are...

• Osc Free Run mode (Hold "Patch" and turn "OSC 2 Tune" Knob to toggle freerun on/off)
• Vintage mode (hold "Patch" and turn "Osc Mix" knob)
• Switch filter type (Hold "Patch" and turn "Filter" knob)
• Wavetable Mods (hold "Patch" and turn either "Wave1" or "Wave2")

Presets range from meh to decent but I generally roll my own so all good. But it's nice to have interesting presets to get an understanding of the synths capabilities...

If anyone knows of any good preset banks to purchase, let me know!

On the Modal website, you can download factory patches for each of the major Firmware updates (Factory 1, 2, 3) plus some free featured patches from 3rd parties. Separately, this is one bank I see people reference often when Argon8 is part of the discussion:



I haven't purchased any patch sets, so I can't personally vouch for them, but some others off a search:



I believe all of those are made on the older firmware, so I'm sure, for example, that VA style patches could be further enhanced by enabling Vintage mode, Osc Free Run, changing to the new filter types added in 3.2, etc.

[KBSoundSmith]

BTW, if you don't have an Expression Pedal, pickup a cheap Nektar NX-P
https://shorturl.at/FqEAj

It seriously enhances the synth for cheap money, especially where Argon8 doesn't have too many Modulation slots and has relatively simple modifiers (unless, of course, you program the 4 Sequencer Animation Lanes).

[swilow11]

^Thanks mate. So much info- really appreciate you taking the time to write that and link to those resources And that patch volume upgrade is perfect, basically removes the main complaint I had.

Haven't made many leads yet, but really nice pads seem to just fall from this synth. Would probably do nice snappy psybass although VST covers that a bit better. Can do a decent squelch and the phase mod sounds great, although breaks up a bit in extreme settings. It's just such a fun synth to noodle with, so intuitive. I had played with a Blofeld some years ago and would say Argon8 sounds much better and is easier to use. Hard to gauge whether Modal are going to keep updating Argon8- I would dearly love to import some of my own wavetables...

[swilow11]

Hmm, strange issue with one key now making an almost kalimba like sound when pressed and released. It's as if something has gotten lose under the keybed. Any thoughts on how to fix this?