Airwindows ToTape7: Free Mac/Windows/Linux/Pi CLAP/AU/VST3/VST2/LV2/Rack

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TBlake wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 8:39 pm it is a given that quality oversampling incurs latency. Prioritizing zero latency over sound quality
is about as half-assed as releasing a saturation plug without oversampling. The oversampling could always be turned off.
By the way, I appreciate hearing from you even though it doesn't speak at all to what I'm trying to do with the plugins. There's most definitely a larger plan and ToTape7 is an important part of what that is, but it is only one plan since I'm only one person and all I've done is toward MY vision, not anybody else's. I'm getting better at being able to demonstrate that.

Now you can turn around and say 'yeah, a vision of sucking and being bad' and who is to stop you, but I think it's fair to accept that we might have very different assumptions about what musical sound even is. For instance, my stuff is not well suited to hyperpop (at least not globally: for isolated elements, sure) but then tape itself is terribly ill suited to hyperpop. Anything where everything is overwhelmingly loud and the brightest sounds are both going right up to 20K, and going right up to 0dB all by themselves, is going to go splat when run into ToTape7, and also go splat in a different but equally profound way when run into real audio tape. It just doesn't work.

I'm old, and I grew up on a completely different sound picture I came to love. I feel people who get excited about tape emulations ITB are likely to also feel the same, except they might think the tape does that FOR the music, but in fact it's a significant difference in mix framing. When listening to big music out in the real world (like a band, or an orchestra) the result slants the audio heavily towards the bass and attenuates the heck out of highs through simple air transmission (which intrinsically pulls it away from hitting soft saturation enough to ameliorate aliasing). And this isn't a choice when you're a symphony orchestra as you can't place an ear within two inches of every instrument at once… but it IS a choice in the box, because if you record a track at a time (or synthesize stuff) you might well have every instrument fighting to push that air band into your ear.

That's very popular, and I hate the heck out of it as a sound :) I'm all about my vinyl record rips these days, and have put a few of them up on my youtube channel as reference.

And the thing is, it's very important to me to make stuff work so you're hearing it exactly as it will be, with zero latency so you can track into a mix, even if you're just on a laptop, because I think that's one future of music. I'm working on finding ways to open up that bigger and more naturally sourced sound to the world of laptop-in-a-flat music so we get those results rather than the 'hyperpop' results, because you know there are plenty of people trying to get the hyperpop results and they don't need my help…

And because I'm completely devoted to pursuing my own goals, it's worth hearing about other people's unrelated goals, even if it's critically. Suffice to say, for people who were already really into ToTape6, I feel confident they got way more and better with ToTape7, and the way they're using it is not causing problems. If you didn't see the point of ToTape6 then maybe you just aren't going to get what you want out of ToTape7 :D

Also, people might specifically hate Dubly, which doesn't even run if you set it to zero :)

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TBlake wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 7:32 pm
jinxtigr wrote: Thu Aug 22, 2024 7:13 pm I have no idea what you're running into it at 96k but suit yourself.
Of course you don't. you'd have to check to be aware but it's a lot easier to let a third party make up for your purposeful shortcomings.
When you try to insult people, and your target is rubber, did you really insult them? Having fun?

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Go buy a f**king tape machine. No aliasing, problem solved.

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For what it's worth, though ToTape7 is the way it is, I expect to look into a newer version of Dubly which would mean a new ToTape8, way sooner than 'a couple years'. I really ought to be able to get Dubly working in a more widely friendly way, there are some things about it that are more appropriate to a literal Dolby circuit. But since this is not that, I shouldn't have to implement it with 'encode, then invert the encode for decode'. It's not going to happen instantly, I took a vacay and came back with COVID so I gotta heal up, but it's right up at the top of my list :D

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Not sure what all the complaining is about, but this is my first time trying Airwindows in a track, and TT7 is giving me some really nice results.
Not interested in how analogue or alias-free they are. That's just a distraction to me.
But this guy just seems to give me a sound that I want to use instantly.

Well done to whatever this guy's name is. :clap:

This'll probably sound a bit weird, but I do wish you could skip the analogue bs, and put a sync on the flutter :lol:

That's usually the one thing that puts me off tape emus (probably my harsh techno / electro upbringing). I want it to sound the same every time I push play.

ooh... and can't we have the Consolidated plugin act as an AW FX Rack??
Really looking forward to trying the other AW plugins, but really feeling the need to stack them in one instance, for some reason :shrug:

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Most Plugin Doctor graphs I see online have a sine wave at 0 db as input, which is bonkers. I won't trust any aliasing claims, given that after MANY peopole repeating over and over again that you need to use realistic input levels for tests, 99% of all graphs in Gearspace STILL used 0 db as input.

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Hi Chris, is the flutter's randomness different from instance to instance? If not, please consider making it. In reality, the flutter at high frequencies would be different from a track to track, but at mid and low frequencies it is the same, isn't it?
Thanks.

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_al_ wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 11:05 pm This'll probably sound a bit weird, but I do wish you could skip the analogue bs, and put a sync on the flutter :lol:
This is what a chorus fx does. No?

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Vitaly wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 11:54 pm
_al_ wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 11:05 pm This'll probably sound a bit weird, but I do wish you could skip the analogue bs, and put a sync on the flutter :lol:
This is what a chorus fx does. No?
The flutter is tempo synced?? :o

Haven't actually tried it tbh, but I'm pretty sure other tape plugins set the rate in Hz no?

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Danilo Villanova wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 11:49 pm Most Plugin Doctor graphs I see online have a sine wave at 0 db as input, which is bonkers.
That's just for visibility. What matters is the difference between input and resulting aliasing artifacts in dB (and of course the density of the artifacts).

Here is an example study about how audible aliasing is in digital synthesis and how much oversampling is necessary: https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... _Synthesis

Keep in mind that this only covers one stage, in this case synthesis. Further processing with any waveshaping (Compression, limiting, tape simulation etc) not only adds gain to already existing aliasing, it adds even more aliasing. It doesn't take much to make it clearly audible.

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Synthesis is a borderline case. You have simple but harmonically rich waveforms and you *will* hear aliasing. Acoustic instruments, or oscillators after filtering, not so much.

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Can someone point me to a piece of published music where he can hear aliasing?

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ampetrosillo wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 3:17 pm Acoustic instruments, or oscillators after filtering, not so much.
Only if you record/filter with analog equipment, otherwise the AD-conversation itself already adds aliasing. This can't be prevented, only reduced (by raising the samplerate). The goal is to reduce aliasing at least to a degree that it becomes mostly inaudible (which applies to the whole signal chain, not just one stage).

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May I kindly ask the aliasing police men to stop polluting this thread with their generic chit-chat?
Thanks!

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Aliasing is very good, people should use it way more. :?
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