Single note is producing a major instead of minor, need help please

[darkarchitech]

I got a track written in F#minor, when I sent it to a friend for feedback he said a couple of the sounds are out of key. So I went back and analyzed the sounds with MixedInKey Studio, and it turns out 2 of the sounds are F# Major instead on F# Minor. It is only a single note being pressed and not a chord for these sounds, the note pressed was obviously f#.

so, my question is how can I get the single note to be a minor instead of a major. I was under the impression that I would need multiple notes held to create a major. I am using sylenth, and have played with every parameter and turned off all effects in case one was creating a chord or something, I did this while running MixedinKey to try and get a minor, but I have had no luck.

Is someone able to explain what is going on? Or point me to tutorial or something?
Do I have to detune an osc or something to achieve a minor? (I didn't have luck when trying this)

The other sound is doing the same thing as I mentioned above, but Pigments was used instead of Sylenth.

Screenshots of sylenth
https://ibb.co/nCrgjS6
https://ibb.co/ZK2tgXP

Any insight is appreciated!
Thanks.

[Gamma-UT]

Either an oscillator is tuned to a major third above the root (look at the patch to find an oscillator pitched up 4 semitones) or the timbre itself has a prominent harmonic in it that corresponds to a major third, which is highly possible with something that has a lot of distortion on it, especially if the line is playing fifths or one of the oscillators is tuned up a fifth or down a fourth.

Without hearing the sound, it's hard to know. However, the tl;dr is: some complex sounds can just sound out of tune because of a clash of harmonics.

[ere2learn]

check semitones on each oscillator, at the basic level move the 4 to a 3 ,

0,4,7 will be a major triad

0,3,7 will be a minor

could be more complex as stated above

[WackyZoundz]

Had similar issues with several synths and romplers (with RealLPC being the most recent case, spontaneously turning major into minor chords). The only solutions I found is to either convert that particular instrument/sound into a custom SoundFont (and then use it with a good player) or to use a different synth/rompler. Some developers do a poor job when it comes to MIDI.

[darkarchitech]

check semitones on each oscillator, at the basic level move the 4 to a 3 ,

0,4,7 will be a major triad

0,3,7 will be a minor

could be more complex as stated above

Thats the weird part, is there is only 1 oscillators octave pitched down by 1

here are the screenshots of page A and B of sylenth

https://ibb.co/nCrgjS6
https://ibb.co/ZK2tgXP

[darkarchitech]

Had similar issues with several synths and romplers (with RealLPC being the most recent case, spontaneously turning major into minor chords). The only solutions I found is to either convert that particular instrument/sound into a custom SoundFont (and then use it with a good player) or to use a different synth/rompler. Some developers do a poor job when it comes to MIDI.

I have had same issue with romplers as well, I figured it was because they were record chords from a completely different scale then the one I was using for my track, basically gave up on using them in tracks lmao.

I have never heard of soundfonts before, is this something I could do inside my daw (Logic X), and when you say "good player" you mean like a sampler correct? Kontakt for example..

[Gamma-UT]

check semitones on each oscillator, at the basic level move the 4 to a 3 ,

0,4,7 will be a major triad

0,3,7 will be a minor

could be more complex as stated above

Thats the weird part, is there is only 1 oscillators octave pitched down by 1

here are the screenshots of page A and B of sylenth

https://ibb.co/nCrgjS6
https://ibb.co/ZK2tgXP

But it's a bunch of sawtooth waves that filter in gradually - and unfiltered sawtooths are full of harmonics. A major third appears in the midrange area thanks to the lower sawtooth on page B. I'm a bit surprised that a filter-sweep effect that I guess you're using for a transition is making things sound radically out of tune though having the resonance cranked to the max will emphasise it as the filter sweeps past it, but it's impossible to know without context.

Assuming F# is your key, try just using E or A as the sweep note (as Emaj or Amaj fit into F#min - though again how this works depends on what chord is playing at that moment). Or switch to a noise sweep for the effect.

[WackyZoundz]

In my case it wasn't prerecorded chords, the automation data fed into the synth/rompler got misinterpreted in strange ways (I checked the MIDI data before going in, the MIDI generators did output correctly). It didn't happen all the time, just occassionally. And never with single notes, only with chords. Still annoying when trying to work though.

SoundFont is a sample library format. You can use it in pretty much any DAW including Logic without third-party plugins (There are plenty of additional SoundFont players available though). It supports samples with up to 24 bit, enough to work professionally. I'm on Windows so I'm using different tools but you could give Polyphone a try which is free (https://www.polyphone.io/en). It takes some time to record all the samples and put them together but it's worth the effort.

[Uncle E]

Turn down Filter A's resonance. Having it all the way up like that is adding a sine wave oscillator.

[Gamma-UT]

Turn down Filter A's resonance. Having it all the way up like that is adding a sine wave oscillator.

The filter isn't static, it sweeps past the lower-mid harmonics pretty quickly so it's not contributing massively to the problem here IMO.

[BertKoor]

Here's what you need to know about harmonic frequencies. Most natural waveforms (square, saw, triangle) can be deconstructed as being the sum of sine waves, where their frequencies are multiples of the base frequency. You can clearly hear that happening when using a nearly resonant filter.

Example:
* F# base frequency = 92.5 Hz
* First harmonic = 92.5 * 2 = 185 Hz which is an F# as well, an octave higher
* 2nd harmonic = 92.5 * 3 = 277.5 Hz which is a C#, interval of a fifth
* next 92.5 * 4 = 370 Hz which is a F# two octaves above the base freq
* next 92.5 * 5 = 462.5 Hz which is an A# which is a major third above the previous natural harmonic.

There is not much you can do against these laws of physics. Resonant frequencies will emphasize that major tone. I know of no way (except cheating) to avoid that.

[darkarchitech]

thanks everyone for all the replies.

I believe i got it sorted out, at least MIK Studio is now telling me the notes being pressed are Gminor lol

for anyone curious has to how I did this, I simply put logics stock pitch shifter plugin at the start of the chain with sylenth and switched the timing to drums and pitched it down by -50 cents.

for the pigments sound that was already bounced to audio, I just used the fine tune parameter in the region drop down menu, and pitched it down by -50 cents as well. It didnt seem to sound as good using the pitch shifter plugin on the audio channel.

any possible down sides doing what I did above? Doesnt seem to downgrade the audio quality or anything. Seemed a little off beat but was able to fix that by just delaying the audio clips slightly by 2 cents.

[WackyZoundz]

Maybe you should get a hardware tuner and check if everything is correctly tuned before proceeding.