Skinning the Free Airwindows Plugins!

[swilow11]

I want to thank several of you for calling me a weird bizarre bottom feeder. Honestly and sincerely! You’ve made the choice easy for me. I won’t be going through with this project. Thank you. Also I’m sorry for disturbing you and being myself. Have a good day.

If you imagine that you're taking the high road with this "being yourself" shtick one post after openly asking whether you can essentially parasitise the community on this forum, you are indeed a bizarre bottom feeding nut job. Instead of acting like a wannabe con man, maybe try not "being yourself"?

[enroe]

So I figured out the GUI stuff in JUCE. I've made some simple plugins with multiple functions such as low pass + hi pass + saturation + output knob. I've also gotten a few of your plugins to compile (as individuals). Before I get too involved with using your code to build something fancy or complex, I have some questions are about the licensing.

1. Can I sell plugins I make using your code? Or does it have to be like a donation/Patreon thing?

2. Do I have to offer these new plugins as open source or github? Or can I keep the source my little secret?

3. If I can sell them would you like a cut of sales? If so what percentage feels good to you?

4. Can I secretly use your algorithms, and say a new plugin is super amazing (because it would be with your code lol) but give you a cut on the back end without calling the plugins "airwindows with fancy skins!"

Haaaaah, a delicate question!

Since the plugins are MIT-licensed, you can do pretty much
anything you want with them. You can even secretly sell them as
the latest hip shit (user "jupiter8" has answered this in detail -
see MIT).

I thought long and hard before giving an answer here.
Airwindows and Chris from Airwindows are - whether consciously
or unconsciously - close to the 'free culture movement' .

It's about making good and even "professional" software
available to everyone, regardless of their income. It's a
socio-cultural achievement, a contribution to equality for all
people.

From this perspective, your request seems disgustingly
parasitic. But there is another way of looking at it ...

There are actually people who believe that something is only
"worth something" if you have to pay for it and if it costs a lot.
They see it as an exception that they don't have to pay for "free
air to breathe".

For these people, really expensive Airwindows plugins would be
a good thing.

[ampetrosillo]

Microsoft essentially lifted all of their TCP/IP code for Windows 98 (I think) from a BSD Unix. The "nice" thing to do is to at least declare it publicly. Anyway, this is precisely the reason why the GPL was created, because back when code was shared publicly, there were some people who took code that was for all intents and purposes in the public domain and repackaged it for personal profit (without granting the same freedoms).

[mcbpete]

there were some people who took code that was for all intents and purposes in the public domain and repackaged it for personal profit (without granting the same freedoms).

Whoever could you be meaning ?!?!

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

What's the fuckkking point?

[ampetrosillo]

there were some people who took code that was for all intents and purposes in the public domain and repackaged it for personal profit (without granting the same freedoms).

Whoever could you be meaning ?!?!

Apparently the original developer behind it has agreed to let them release this proprietary development of ObXd. (There is only one real new feature, the new filter; the community could code it back in in the old version, which is still available under the GPL).

[DJErmac]

EDIT : minding my own business after all, sorry for any inconvenience

[DJErmac]

EDIT : who cares ?...

[jinxtigr]

I thought long and hard before giving an answer here.
Airwindows and Chris from Airwindows are - whether consciously
or unconsciously - close to the 'free culture movement' .

It's about making good and even "professional" software
available to everyone, regardless of their income. It's a
socio-cultural achievement, a contribution to equality for all
people.

Consciously. I think there might even be a bit of a negative correlation between wealthiness and having something worthwhile musical to say. It's overcomable, but absolutely I'm making the software available to everyone.

NOTE that this also means broke and sketchy would-be software devs! Nobody who carries on like the person in this thread, is an investor-grade entrepeneur. I see 'em more as someone like me, but a lot younger. My base plugins are MIT licensed specifically to be as cooperative as possible in case somebody out there needs a leg up to start doing their own thing.

There's a guy on the Reaper forum porting stuff to JSFX who is renaming all the plugins he does, and also fiddling with nearly all of them. I embrace this. My gut check on the 'MIT license' is that you gotta credit: I'm not dual licensing to keep stuff secret, and I enjoy it best when other people also take an open source direction. The cross-pollination can be awesome.

You also cannot 'secretly' use all the Airwindows algorithms: quite often, because of the way the plugin works, there's a sound signature that could be measured and recognized. Sometimes it's really obvious. So the idea that you could take code and then hype your thing without giving credit is a risky and dubious move: firstly, you might be found out, but secondly what on earth gives you the idea that hiding said connection is a smart marketing idea? People KNOW that I want others to build on what I've built. Hell, my code's showing up in a 4MS Eurorack module now, thanks to what Baconpaul did with the codebase I made (and how I made it easy for him to take it in his directions): he's basically tried to set up code libraries for the plugins that can get built into stuff extra easily.

It just depends on WHAT you want to do with it all. If you are only chasing my tail, that's a limiting factor, but you can do stuff I don't care to do, or stuff I'm not doing the way you want it done.

With the talk about 'what if I like stole all your stuff and made a million dollars', such talk might offend the community but to me it cries out 'noob'. And that's good! We all start somewhere. But you can't be too mad at that person because it's not a real suggestion: it's naive. I don't care how slick you make the GUI. It's just not that simple. If it's money you want, get a real job, what are you doing in the music business… and if it's cred and attention you want, focus on your end of it and trust that citing 'based on the Airwindows plugins' will not hurt you in marketing. It's basically like putting a label on saying 'airwindows but BETTER in the ways you want!' knowing that I don't serve everybody's wishes, I just do my thing

Don't fret. This is all good. Carry on

[QCGroove]

Thanks Chris

[pekbro]

nvm... (< context)

[WackyZoundz]

I like Airwindows plugins because they have no GUI. If something doesn't even need a GUI, why waste resources on that? It doesn't make any plugin sound better...

[baconpaul]

I know Chris knows this but for the rest of you

There *is* a version with a gui already. It’s the consolidated plugin Chris and I wrote earlier in the year. That’s based on a modified version of the surge importer that audiojunkie mentioned and so is also how airwindows gets into vcv rack and the 4ms meta module (and your project if you want!)

It is also free software like his plugins (and like the other music software I write also).

Also folks think open source licenses are complicated but the mit license Chris uses is a shorter document than many books for small children and answers many of the permission questions in this thread if you read it! https://opensource.org/license/mit

[EvilDragon]

It doesn't make any plugin sound better...

General population disagrees.

[enroe]

... whether consciously or unconsciously - close to the 'free culture movement' .

Consciously.

I think there might even be a bit of a negative correlation between wealthiness and having something worthwhile musical to say. It's overcomable, but absolutely I'm making the software available to everyone.

NOTE that this also means broke and sketchy would-be software devs! Nobody who carries on like the person in this thread, is an investor-grade entrepeneur. I see 'em more as someone like me, but a lot younger. My base plugins are MIT licensed specifically to be as cooperative as possible in case somebody out there needs a leg up to start doing their own thing.

There's a guy on the Reaper forum porting stuff to JSFX who is renaming all the plugins he does, and also fiddling with nearly all of them. I embrace this. My gut check on the 'MIT license' is that you gotta credit: I'm not dual licensing to keep stuff secret, and I enjoy it best when other people also take an open source direction. The cross-pollination can be awesome.

You also cannot 'secretly' use all the Airwindows algorithms: quite often, because of the way the plugin works, there's a sound signature that could be measured and recognized. Sometimes it's really obvious. So the idea that you could take code and then hype your thing without giving credit is a risky and dubious move: firstly, you might be found out, but secondly what on earth gives you the idea that hiding said connection is a smart marketing idea? People KNOW that I want others to build on what I've built. Hell, my code's showing up in a 4MS Eurorack module now, thanks to what Baconpaul did with the codebase I made (and how I made it easy for him to take it in his directions): he's basically tried to set up code libraries for the plugins that can get built into stuff extra easily.

It just depends on WHAT you want to do with it all. If you are only chasing my tail, that's a limiting factor, but you can do stuff I don't care to do, or stuff I'm not doing the way you want it done.

With the talk about 'what if I like stole all your stuff and made a million dollars', such talk might offend the community but to me it cries out 'noob'. And that's good! We all start somewhere. But you can't be too mad at that person because it's not a real suggestion: it's naive. I don't care how slick you make the GUI. It's just not that simple. If it's money you want, get a real job, what are you doing in the music business… and if it's cred and attention you want, focus on your end of it and trust that citing 'based on the Airwindows plugins' will not hurt you in marketing. It's basically like putting a label on saying 'airwindows but BETTER in the ways you want!' knowing that I don't serve everybody's wishes, I just do my thing

Don't fret. This is all good. Carry on

Yes, of course, I understand.

Nevertheless, I find it astonishing how someone thinks they can
make a business out of plugins and free software that are actually
free for everyone. How someone wants to cut off a piece of the
"free world", steal it and commercialize it.

This may be difficult for the very specialized Airwindows plugins
because it is a specific niche and because there is a vibrant
community and fan base. But more generally, this phenomenon
is highly annoying, antisocial and parasitic.

This is similar to the Nestle Group's intention to buy up water
sources, privatize them - and then sell water to people at a high
price: They are destroying what is actually a free world in which
people can live, breaking it up into fenced-off properties and
selling at a high price what was once "free" - and what everyone
actually needs to live.

This kind of monetization destroys our free world and our creative
culture. That is why we need to raise awareness about such
processes.

The Creative Commons licenses are designed precisely to ensure
that open source software can continue to be used and developed
in any way, but that it remains "open source".

The MIT license, on the other hand, is extremely open - and even
opens the door to "commercializers". I would rather recommend
the Creative Commons license.

To you, Chris, I would like to say: You contribute to free culture, and
are even an important part of being a creative human being. Thank
you for your broad-mindedness and your free, generous spirit!