runnin away from Win

[jamcat]

This is what I don't like about macs.

SAMSUNG 870 QVO SATA III SSD 8TB 2.5" $665

Apple MacBook pro 8tb SSD upgrade from 1tb SSD
+$2200

The one they use might be better spec than the avg example I used

You seem to be confused. Apple does not use SATA SSDs. They use NAAND chips soldered directly to the motherboard. These are extremely fast, and are more akin to high-performance M.2 NVMe, like this:

https://www.amazon.com/SABRENT-Internal ... 09WZK8YMY/

This is 7 times faster than a SATA SSD.

[pekbro]

This is what I don't like about macs.

SAMSUNG 870 QVO SATA III SSD 8TB 2.5" $665

Apple MacBook pro 8tb SSD upgrade from 1tb SSD
+$2200

The one they use might be better spec than the avg example I used

You seem to be confused. Apple does not use SATA SSDs. They use NAAND chips soldered directly to the motherboard. These are extremely fast, and are more akin to high-performance M.2 NVMe, like this:

https://www.amazon.com/SABRENT-Internal ... 09WZK8YMY/

This is 7 times faster than a SATA SSD.

Well, whatever they are using these days, it's still the same situation no doubt.
Anyway, I get it, I would love to have a nice high-perf mac, I simply can't afford
one.

[revvy]

Nm.

[4damind]

Well, the customisation options on PCs are a double-edged sword.

I built my own PCs for a couple decades. I never once was able to reuse parts.

With a new CPU come a new chipset and socket which means a new motherboard, along with a new “silent” CPU cooler size and a new DDR type. And significant advances in SSDs and GPUs means you’re going to want to upgrade those as well.

There may even be a new USB spec, which means a new case with the latest ports.

So you end up building an entirely new computer every time. Might as well get a Mac at that point.

That's right! That's the problem with PCs... you know that if you really upgrade you basically almost need a new computer. I've only replaced one SSD on my PC in the last few years because the old one was too small. That's it... I can do that just as easily on my Mac, I just plug another one into my hub.

[jamcat]

Yep, that was my point. The whole “upgradabity” myth of PCs is overblown. There’s too much churn and too many components are interdependent. You can never upgrade just one part.

I’ve also never had a “silent” PC, despite all the hybrid/fanless PSUs and video cards, BeQuiet! CPU coolers, and SilenX, Noctua, and NoiseBlocker fans. They’re not even quiet when it matters.

But my Apple Silicon MacBook Pro is as dead quiet as my iPad.

[4damind]

I’ve also never had a “silent” PC, despite all the hybrid/fanless PSUs and video cards, BeQuiet! CPU coolers, and SilenX, Noctua, and NoiseBlocker fans.

But my Apple Silicon MacBook Pro is as dead quiet as my iPad.

I also had silent components in my PCs, huge heat sinks, selected power supplies, BeQuiet stuff... but the computer was still loud. I also had the bad luck with the last PC that the voltage converter on the Gigabyte board was loud (“Coil Whine” problem). I would have had to replace the entire board and I was just too lazy to do that....

That's why I'm always skeptical about “Silent PC”. Technically it is possible but it's not quite as easy as some people claim (and it's not cheap either)
I always find it funny when people in YouTube videos turn on an Apple Silicon Mac for the first time and are amazed that you can't hear anything But I felt the same way... it's just wonderful!

[koalaboy]

I'm not disputing that the new Macs aren't great. As mentioned, I have a Mac Studio (and only an M1 so I know the newer are better again, at least the M2 was), and it's an awesome little box.

However, I have multiple NVMe drives and SATA 2.5" SSDs that I can easily re-use in a PC (yes, I may need to upgrade the motherboard/RAM/CPU when I change, but that's far less cost and better value than a new entire Mac), and the only way to use them with the Mac is via an external chassis or DAS, and then you start hitting the same hardware compatibility problems that you sometimes get with a PC. (Before anyone says I'm doing it wrong, I've worked all the platforms for over 20 years).

Generally, they 'just work' but much like the problems with Windows 11 as Microsoft screw that over, when it "doesn't" work, you hit that wall and are mostly told it's your own problem.

I understand the 'technical' reasons, but they don't make up for the inconvenience. I can't afford an 8TB internal drive (and then still need the reliable backup approach), and Apple are never going to truly embrace flexibility as that doesn't bring them the huge profits.

Like many, I would 100% switch to Linux if they had convenient/native support for VSTs from the main companies (I know, bridges, emulation, etc... again, convenience), and get closer every day as Microsoft is determined to ruin Windows for everyone, as it holds the best of both worlds in general (and USB audio is mostly a solved problem, and the whole real-time thing (yay kernel) isn't as much of a problem for most people... but it's not there yet.

To bring it all back on the original topic... don't "Run away" from anything in particular. Write down what you want/need from your system, evaluate the options, and choose whatever suits you (and your circumstances) the best. There will likely be compromises, and the same system may not be what you need next year, but I can guarantee that whatever you choose will not be the limiting factor in your music.

It's the same as any DAW discussion, or most plugin discussions... they're valuable as they provide perspectives, but at the end of the day, whatever enables "YOU" to make the music/sound/noise/bleeps/bloops/farts in the way you envision, is the way you should go. Everything else is just the banter that helps shape your perception, that feeds your inspiration.

[whyterabbyt]

You can never upgrade just one part.

Maybe you cant, but Ive upgraded just one part plenty of times

I’ve also never had a “silent” PC, despite all the hybrid/fanless PSUs and video cards, BeQuiet! CPU coolers, and SilenX, Noctua, and NoiseBlocker fans.

Must be something you're doing wrong.
We have two 100% silent PCs in our sound studios.

[4damind]

This is what I don't like about macs.

SAMSUNG 870 QVO SATA III SSD 8TB 2.5" $665

Apple MacBook pro 8tb SSD upgrade from 1tb SSD
+$2200

I don't want to repeat everything... but you also have to compare the performance? The large 8 TB SSD is of course very expensive but also very, very fast with approx. 7000 MB/s (!!) The internal 512 GB consists of 2 NAND chips and is therefore connected via 2 buses and is approx. 3000 MB/s fast. Even the small internal 256 GB SSD, e.g. in the base model, still achieves approx. 1500 MB/s... Compare that with SATA

But even if you use external SSDs... the Mac has Thunderbolt 4 and is connected at approx. 40GB/s. Conventional SSDs like the Samsung T7 still reach over 700 MB/s and NVMe like the WD SN 770 up to 3000 MB/s (!) - and the 2 TB NVMe + housing only cost around 200€... that's damn fast and not comparable to SATA.
It therefore makes perfect sense and saves a lot of money to use a rather smaller SSD only for the system, e.g. the 512 GB and then a 2 or 4 TB external NVMe for projects, video editing etc. For most people, however, a “normal” SSD e.g. Samsung T7 is more than sufficient... this is still faster than most people have with SATA in their PC and is even ideal for huge music projects, sample libraries or videos in 4 or 8K (and not expensive... 2TB approx. 150€, 4 TB under 300€).

[revvy]

Hmmm. Hasn’t yet devolved into personal insults and attacks on each other. Odd.

[whyterabbyt]

It therefore makes perfect sense and saves a lot of money to use a rather smaller disk only for the system, e.g. the 512 GB and then a 2 or 4 TB external NVMe for projects, video editing etc.

No it doesnt makes perfect sense. Not on a Mac, because Apple are ripping you off.

And fefinitely not on a PC. On PC a 4Tb NVME with speeds around 7000MBs can be found under £300, when Apple will charge you £400 to put just 1Tb in.

[revvy]

£200 extra. Yep, Apple are pricey. Not really news.

[whyterabbyt]

£200.

£400 on any model where the base version starts with only 256Gb. That's iMacs, Minis, MBP's and Airs.

Yep, Apple are pricey. Not really news.

No, its definitely not. Sadly neither is passing it off as 'perfect sense'

[revvy]

He didn’t say overcharging makes perfect sense. He said get 512 internal (upgrading form this to 1TB would cost€200) and it makes perfect sense to counteract the Apple tax by buying an external. My interpretation, anyway.

[whyterabbyt]

He said get 512 internal

Yes, I know. Which in itself would cost £200 over the 256Gb in most entry level models. But I wasnt making a comparison to the cost of going to 512Gb as he stated, I was making a comparison to the cost of 1Tb, as per Pekbro's post that he quoted and was responding to. His post was contextualised on the cost of 1Tb, as was mine.