So, with it's release, is SynthMaster 3 the new reigning Super Synth?

[kv331]

I guess you could just have the basic samples in one layer as a multi-sample setup (snare, hi hat, kick drum, etc) so only that one layer is used.

Of course that is the easiest solution, and there is a drum mode for the sequencer already

[ThomasHelzle]

As for the discussion about simple one trick pony synths:
That is the magic of Synthmaster 3 for me. You can just as well use it as a one-page synth with only one osc and filter as use it's full depth.
I would never have used Falcon or Avenger for a simple sine oscillator sound that way.
With SM3 I do, since it's never in the way.
The layout just works for me.
And all the power is there if I need it. Sometimes patches evolve from simple to complex in beautiful ways...

[zerocrossing]

I'm diving in a bit and here's the things about Synthmaster that I find super unintuitive or oddly implemented. I init a patch and I get a sine wave. Fine, I guess, though the standard is sawtooth, but OK, easy enough to change. Then I want to see what other types of sound sources I have... but there's no real label of what sound source I'm using, so I'm going to assume VA, eh? Nope, because I can switch to VA and get totally different controls. OK, well VA... so how about a square wave... no. That was in the other oscillator type... what was it? No idea, it wasn't labeled in the UI. OK, process of elimination shows it's Basic Osc... which give me all the basic analog waveforms... and a ton more of very not basic single cycle wave forms, and samples. So what's VA? I see a triangle wave graph but I'm hearing and seeing a filtered sawtooth. I see I can click on nodes and change the shape... and morph between three versions, totally unlike any analog I've ever worked with. Cool, but shouldn't this be called something else?

Granular seems to work as you'd expect, but then we hit Additive and I'm back to being confused. Only 8 partials, but you can use any type of waveform, so not really what we think of as additive, but cool multi mixing of waveforms. I don't see any way of modulating the different waves, so that makes it a bit of a fail. Why not just use a cool single cycle waveform? The Vector Osc seems similar but way more useful. Wavetable osc works as expected, until I tried to make a custom wavetable and all of the sudden, I'm lost. I've made custom wavetables in Serum, Icarus, and Dune and never had to really crack a manual to figure out what to do, but I'm looking at this interface and I have no idea of what I'm doing. I'm sure I can read the manual and figure it out, but it's really not intuitive at all.

Oh, and my demo version expired mid note and hung on a single note until I deleted the plugin. That's stupid. Just go silent.

Onto filters, good, not really what I'd call good analog emulations, but they're fine and get the job done. If you crank the quality the distortion is very clean, which I appreciate.

So I come to a bass preset that's polyphonic and I want to change to to mono... I don't see any way of setting that. Ah, it's buried in the Track View. OK.

Now I'm messing with the routing... and I can get a feedback loop, but I can't seem to add a filter into that loop... and a lot of things you'd think would be possible are not possible. The feedback loop doesn't seem to really sound like what you'd expect actual feedback to be. I tried swapping the the filter while I had a feedback loop and the plugin just crashed.

I bought it, because I think there's a lot there to play with, but I still do feel like there's a UX issue with Synthmaster that's never been fully addressed. When I put it up next to other plugins like Pigments, it's a mess. Oh, and for some unknown reason, my credit card wouldn't work and I had to use Paypal. (credit card is fine)

[Morty-C-137]

I can somewhat echo your experiences zerocrossing. The sounds that can be had with Synthmaster are great and it sounds good. But, for me, the whole UI and UX is a horrible experience so I just wont buy because I know I won't use it if it's a pain. But everyone has their own preference, I know.

[kv331]

But, for me, the whole UI and UX is a horrible experience so I just wont buy because I know I won't use it if it's a pain. But everyone has their own preference, I know.

Did you try out SynthMaster 3?

[swilow11]

Eh, perhaps a bit too menu divey but SM3 UI is pretty easy to navigate imo. Definitely improved over SM2. That said, I have no issue with Falcon so maybe I'm not the best judge of this...

[mambo888]

I can somewhat echo your experiences zerocrossing. The sounds that can be had with Synthmaster are great and it sounds good. But, for me, the whole UI and UX is a horrible experience so I just wont buy because I know I won't use it if it's a pain. But everyone has their own preference, I know.

That’s what you get with a small team of developers, they don’t have as much time to refine the GUI to perfection. If it works they are happy. As long as the functionality is good we don’t really have anything to complain about. Let’s hope the sales is strong and they can get more resources.

[Morty-C-137]

But, for me, the whole UI and UX is a horrible experience so I just wont buy because I know I won't use it if it's a pain. But everyone has their own preference, I know.

Did you try out SynthMaster 3?

I did. It's just not the product for me. I do enjoy though hearing what other people that do gel with it get out of it.

[kv331]

I'm diving in a bit and here's the things about Synthmaster that I find super unintuitive or oddly implemented. I init a patch and I get a sine wave. Fine, I guess, though the standard is sawtooth, but OK, easy enough to change.

Fixed in the next update. will be sawtooth.

Then I want to see what other types of sound sources I have... but there's no real label of what sound source I'm using, so I'm going to assume VA, eh?

You start off with a "basic" oscillator. Looks like you haven't watched the tutorials at all. With the basic oscillator you can load:

1. Single cycle waveforms
2. Noises
3. Multi-samples
4. Single samples

Nope, because I can switch to VA and get totally different controls. OK, well VA... so how about a square wave... no.

Since you have not watched the tutorial(s), you couldn't see the different between VA Osc and Basic Osc at first look. The VA oscillator is different from basic oscillator. We have many presets built from analog oscillator waveforms:

Screen Shot 2024-09-23 at 10.39.27.png

There are 2 wave shapes (1 and 2), and you can morph between those 2 shapes in real time. There's also a sub oscillator:

Screen Shot 2024-09-23 at 10.40.18.png

That was in the other oscillator type... what was it? No idea, it wasn't labeled in the UI.

Ok, to make it more clear, I am going to add a tooltip description to the tabs, so that when you move your move over a module name, the tooltip will tell you what type of module it is.

but then we hit Additive and I'm back to being confused. Only 8 partials, but you can use any type of waveform, so not really what we think of as additive, but cool multi mixing of waveforms. I don't see any way of modulating the different waves, so that makes it a bit of a fail.

You can modulate volume, pan, pitch and phase of each of those 8 waves that form the "additive" oscillator:

Screen Shot 2024-09-23 at 10.46.51.png

I've made custom wavetables in Serum, Icarus, and Dune and never had to really crack a manual to figure out what to do, but I'm looking at this interface and I have no idea of what I'm doing. I'm sure I can read the manual and figure it out, but it's really not intuitive at all.

Please take a look at the video tutorial. When you create a new wavetable you start off with "wave source" in which you can add single cycle waveforms. You can load those single cycles from existing waveforms in the factory library, or you can draw the wave shape or spectrum (free hand drawing). By double clicking on the keyframe area, you can add new key frames (single cycle waveforms)

So I come to a bass preset that's polyphonic and I want to change to to mono... I don't see any way of setting that.

Layer tab -> Poly Mode, it IS visible by default since Layer tab is the default tab:

Screen Shot 2024-09-23 at 11.02.46.png

Now I'm messing with the routing... and I can get a feedback loop, but I can't seem to add a filter into that loop...

As I explained in the tutorial videos, feedback is not supported in the routing view yet. Only for modulators.

I bought it, because I think there's a lot there to play with, but I still do feel like there's a UX issue with Synthmaster that's never been fully addressed.

Never been addressed? Seriously?

Anyhow, thanks for taking the time to give a detailed answer.

[swilow11]

Tbh I am slightly underwhelmed by the additive oscillator too. Any synth with more than 1 oscillator and a variety of waveforms could be considered additive if by additive we mean 'able to play different waveforms simultaneously'.. but this is just not what the general community mean by additive. We mean a bank of sine waves/partials. I guess one could construct something approximate using multiple oscillators anf layers but that's a hassle..

I wonder if you've considered making a genuine additive engine ala Pigments style? This would be absolutely amazing and would truly (imo) elevate this already fantastic synth....

[kv331]

Tbh I am slightly underwhelmed by the additive oscillator too. Any synth with more than 1 oscillator and a variety of waveforms could be considered additive if by additive we mean 'able to play different waveforms simultaneously'.. but this is just not what the general community mean by additive. We mean a bank of sine waves/partials. I guess one could construct something approximate using multiple oscillators anf layers but that's a hassle..

I know 8 partials are not enough to call it an "additive" oscillator. I don't know how to rename it though. "Organ" oscillator maybe? or "Multi Osc" ?

I wonder if you've considered making a genuine additive engine ala Pigments style? This would be absolutely amazing and would truly (imo) elevate this already fantastic synth....

Let me see what I can do about this. if it won't involve fast fourier transforms, I can consider that. It might be feasible rendering sine waves using SIMD vector instructions hopefuly.

EDIT: I've been watching videos on "Additive synths" today. Loom II looks good, Pigments as well.

[koalaboy]

Have I missed a way to type values into a field (rather than turning a knob) for exact values ?

[kv331]

Eh, perhaps a bit too menu divey

Agreed. I will do my best to add more "browser" dialogs for waveforms, wavetables, samples and multisamples

[kv331]

Have I missed a way to type values into a field (rather than turning a knob) for exact values ?

Still in my TODO list.

[koalaboy]

Have I missed a way to type values into a field (rather than turning a knob) for exact values ?

Still in my TODO list.

Thanks for responding.