Reason 13 Announced- Sequencer updated!

[D-Fusion]

I vaguely remember meeting Mattias at Superbooth shortly after the release of version 10, and although he didn't say it verbatim, he gave me to understand that Reason had given up the race with the competition. With the release of version 11 came the Rack plugin and the subtle advertisement: if you like other workflows (Ableton Live, Cubase) better, use them.

But this update isn't RRP friendly. Did they change their mind?

I don’t know. At least they are bouncing back and forth. After several years with lackluster advancements to their DAW core, they maybe felt they had to appease the diehard Reason DAW fans. But it still doesn't look as if they have resumed the race. Free minor updates from competitors still have more to offer than major releases from Reason Studios.

I fully understand Reason DAW lovers and how seeing this DAW loosing ground against the other must be tough...
But RS is still industry leading in some area. First the RRP while imperfect is still a very nice tool and part of my top plugins. 2nd, their physical modelling synths are second to none...
I feel they should take advantage of that...

What is great about Reason is that i can load my old songs from 1999-2000 in Reason 12 without any problem and I have backups of all my Refills from V1 to V12

[Jac459]

I vaguely remember meeting Mattias at Superbooth shortly after the release of version 10, and although he didn't say it verbatim, he gave me to understand that Reason had given up the race with the competition. With the release of version 11 came the Rack plugin and the subtle advertisement: if you like other workflows (Ableton Live, Cubase) better, use them.

But this update isn't RRP friendly. Did they change their mind?

I don’t know. At least they are bouncing back and forth. After several years with lackluster advancements to their DAW core, they maybe felt they had to appease the diehard Reason DAW fans. But it still doesn't look as if they have resumed the race. Free minor updates from competitors still have more to offer than major releases from Reason Studios.

I fully understand Reason DAW lovers and how seeing this DAW loosing ground against the other must be tough...
But RS is still industry leading in some area. First the RRP while imperfect is still a very nice tool and part of my top plugins. 2nd, their physical modelling synths are second to none...
I feel they should take advantage of that...

What is great about Reason is that i can load my old songs from 1999-2000 in Reason 12 without any problem and I have backups of all my Refills from V1 to V12

And v12 or v13 is largely enough to make any great song....

[two_tone]

Continuing on my point, I believe, private equities have done for this release what they do best which is chronically under-investing.

The problem of release 13 is not the quality of the release. It is ok to prioritize the DAW. It is ok to add a few extensions.

The problem is the quantity. At a turning point moment of reason history, where people starts to doubt. They propose 1 new synth... A VA on top of that. Certainly not the most complex and innovative synth to do considering the massive trend on VA of the 2010s.

Remember the v11 there was Europa AND grain, 2 ground breaking instruments.
Europa introducing a unique flavour of wavetable vs spectral synthesis and grains which remains for me one of the best granular instrument of the market (and yes, I have novum, PP, SM3...).

While Europa and Grain are great devices, I think that release was the beginning of the "newer Era" of Reason. That was still a highly controversial update. Many users were highly upset that virtually no workflow improvements were delivered and those devices might have been the beginning of some bad decisions to their RE platform or at least in the perspective of a healthy 3rd party developer base. Europa and Grain were clear preparation for their next update (developing a Rack Plugin). In itself the Rack Plugin is a pretty innovative idea and opens up Reason and REs to VST users. But still no workflow improvements in two update cycles are really pissing off users. And that release was one of the skimpiest updates I remembered for any DAW. I don't remember if this is were they introduced Reason + but if it was, it was also a time were it looked like they were actively intentionally trying to hurt their 3rd party RE developers. I even saw a few innovative 3rd party developers call it quits at that time and I never understood the purpose of that move. If it was the capital investors idea, it was very stupid as I doubt that update made much short term Revenue and they Murdered alot of their long term 3rd party Re sales which I guess probably isn't that big to begin with but more 3rd party developers is more revenue, more interesting 3rd party products = more Reason users in the long term.

I think you're correct that the writing has been on the wall since they destroyed what was once a relatively healthy RE marketplace with a lot of major brand participation (korg, softube, reveal, u-he, etc) with the same trademark arrogance and indifference to the interests of their partners and customers that has also alienated most of the user base. All of those major brand participants stopped making REs years ago and some of them like u-he and softube asked to have their products pulled from the RE store. Getting multiple big corporate brands to give up what was entirely passive income for them at that point just to avoid being associated with your ecosystem that they were actively developing for a couple years earlier is quite spectacular mismanagement. Many of the best small and solo developers that are still developing REs have been on record for several years now about their dissatisfaction with the very developer hostile mismanagement of the RE marketplace. From talented solo devs to major corporate brands, from power users who have thousands of dollars invested in REs to brand new users who just want a feature even the free DAWs have all had since 2007, these guys have managed to consistently piss off literally everyone they interact with for over a decade.

I think for years the user base assumed that Mattias was the reluctant face of what they assumed he and most of the other employees knew to be incredibly shortsighted and toxic mismanagement (because presumably some of them might have actually used the product once upon a time). Since version ten I have heard from enough people to consider it potentially true that Mattias is in fact the primary source of their long term dedication to a strategy of giving their customers none of what all of them say they want while devoting the lionshare of development and marketing resources to all kinds of wacky random stuff no one asked for or used (the balance hardware interface line, the online collaboration collaboration thing around v8, multiple mobile apps, etc).

All while not having delivered on a bunch of VERY basic midi and audio sequencer features users have been demanding literally since Record was launched, many of which Justin Frankel literally added to Reaper overnight or within a few days after a single user request back when he was the only developer (this is literally true for a number of features, not an exaggeration). But yeah, I think you're correct that killing the RE ecosystem that was providing most of their revenue was probably the beginning of the end and word on the street is that Mattias has been part of the problem all along.

[two_tone]

Who would you guys like to see acquire the brand if and when they sell? I'm not an Apple person (at all) but that Logic midi editor is hot and it would be pocket change for them. I'd probably bite the bullet and get a used mac mini if the reason rack and an updated knob-per-function mixer with multiple console models (i'd license the brainworks channels, their component based VA modeling has gotten quite good) got incorporated into Logic.

Bandlab/Caldecott would be alright as it seems to be a relatively well run company by industry standards and we might get an updated RE-2A, that was a very ahead-of-its-time VA plugin that still sounds good next to newer tech. That goes for several other older Reason devices as like SSL buss comp, subtractor, m-class imager, etc.

In another, brighter world maybe we'd see it acquired by a hardware or plugin maker that wanted to break into the DAW market by building it out into a full-fledged DAW with a modern sequencer (looking at you Korg, Roland, Arturia, IK Multimedia, please God not PA/Behringer). Merging the RE/Refill store with the Kontakt store would probably revive it, but Korg would probably get my vote because they also make quirky, creative instruments that sound great and would be a natural fit for the Reason rack.

[two_tone]

I forgot about Motu, they could probably swing it and the conversion which was the main weakness of their interfaces for years has really caught up with the times recently while DP has become a legit competitor to Cubase, Logic, and the other non-PT, non Live or Bitwig 'traditional' DAWs that everyone seems to have forgotten about.

Attention Motu, if you save Reason and fully integrate the rack routing with your AVB ecosystem and DP so it can be seamlessly integrated with hardware in AVB environments I will buy your hardware and DP for the foreseeable future. I might actually apply for a position at Motu if they announced that. If it's Antelope or Behringer I'm going to die a little inside (though the UB-Xa legitimately sounds amazing, keep re-making all those classic synths please).

[two_tone]

i accidentally quoted instead of editing my previous post and don't know how to delete it

[LaLivre]

Instead of a new owner (Moty, Apple, ..) and the same old intern problems they just simply need a better product management who cares about basic DAW features + bring the community back together with good communication.
Reason will rise again but need better management a.s.a.p. before it's too late....Those actual manager(s ?) there need to quit as soon as possible.

It is all a totally PR disaster since a very long time ...

[D-Fusion]

Who would you guys like to see acquire the brand if and when they sell? I'm not an Apple person (at all) but that Logic midi editor is hot and it would be pocket change for them. I'd probably bite the bullet and get a used mac mini if the reason rack and an updated knob-per-function mixer with multiple console models (i'd license the brainworks channels, their component based VA modeling has gotten quite good) got incorporated into Logic.

Bandlab/Caldecott would be alright as it seems to be a relatively well run company by industry standards and we might get an updated RE-2A, that was a very ahead-of-its-time VA plugin that still sounds good next to newer tech. That goes for several other older Reason devices as like SSL buss comp, subtractor, m-class imager, etc.

In another, brighter world maybe we'd see it acquired by a hardware or plugin maker that wanted to break into the DAW market by building it out into a full-fledged DAW with a modern sequencer (looking at you Korg, Roland, Arturia, IK Multimedia, please God not PA/Behringer). Merging the RE/Refill store with the Kontakt store would probably revive it, but Korg would probably get my vote because they also make quirky, creative instruments that sound great and would be a natural fit for the Reason rack.

I don't Want Bandlab Near Reason at all after they Turned Cakewalk Sonar into a subscription based product with no option to buy a License.....

[LaLivre]

@ D-Fusion and you other guys who think that it would be another great fit if bandlab, cakewalk or microsoft could be a new owner: Guys, it doesn't matter 'cause a good and solid product is not only about the investors money at all. A fluid investor is already here and everything is possible!
Replace this actual missmanagment with motivated guys who have a real expertise in (at least) semi-professional DAW music production!

It's like in soccer: In some cases it's really just the coach that needs a replacement .... even if he is a good coach and a good soul. So it is not the money or the capital investments group that provide good inventions, management and communication. Reason Studios management was already wearing very strangely before the investor came on board.

Maybe that sounds all a bit inflammatory and aggressive, but something fundamental needs to change immediately (!), and that starts with project management. Kicking guys out or move them to other positions and replace them with others is the only solution.

After that, the new managers have a task: to immediately make up for lost time with very basic DAW features. Then the communication with the community, with external parties and with the RE producers has to be improved...and so on...there is a lot to do but it is not too much. Just provide good managemnt.

[jens]

I absolutely agree (and said so for quite a while).

[kmonkey]

It's like in soccer: In some cases it's really just the coach that needs a replacement .... even if he is a good coach and a good soul. So it is not the money or the capital investments group that provide good inventions, management and communication. Reason Studios management was already wearing very strangely before the investor came on board.

The issue with this is...Even if someone replaces a "coach" who is making all the wrong decisions over there. It would take them at least a year of adaptation, restructuring, and then delivering.

All the year in other players can come up with an advantage or someone new with some invention could jump in.

So it is a bad situation all along from the get-go.

[LaLivre]

Yes you are right, it does not look bright at all ...
Good (and bad decisions) need time to bring the fruits in economy. This can really take many moths if not years before the result of past decisions appears.

[jens]

Yes you are right, it does not look bright at all ...

Yes, which is why I said earlier that personally I'm not convinced R14 might ever arrive. The way they managed to mess up this time, there's just no safe way walking back from...

and to reiterate what I said before: I'm convinced that if Mattias just woudln't have been there (i.e. no product manager at all and the coders just doing their thing), R13 would have been a way better product. They should have used his wage to hire another coder instead and R13 would have been a much better product. And to think there's even an even more clueless CEO on top of him? The mind boggles.

[D-Fusion]

Yes you are right, it does not look bright at all ...

Yes, which is why I said earlier that personally I'm not convinced R14 might ever arrive. The way they managed to mess up this time, there's just no safe way walking back from...

and to reiterate what I said before: I'm convinced that if Mattias just woudln't have been there (i.e. no product manager at all and the coders just doing their thing), R13 would have been a way better product. They should have used his wage to hire another coder instead and R13 would have been a much better product. And to think there's even an even more clueless CEO on top of him? The mind boggles.

I like that they moved the Tools window from the right side of the Screen into the Sequencer.
That gave v13 a greater Workflow vs having to take your eyes away from the Sequencer to adjust something.

They should have left the Browser alone since you could already Browse or Search for your favorite sounds in there and they could just have added the tag system to it.

It was great that they Removed the Tool window from taking up space on the Right side but i don't know what they where thinking when they Replaced that with a Fat Browser Window that is always in the way when you use it and it is not what i consider a Better Workflow.

And the new Browser is one of the Reasons why i never will update to V13 + the Update is pretty Mediocre And it has been that way for every update for the last 8-9 years.

[Scotty]

There are many of us that just wanted access to the rack extensions , instruments and excellent effects because we were already committed to our more fully featured DAW. Reason 14 will likely come but those internal DAW like tweaks will be lower priority. Obviously frustrating for long time users who use its full feature set .