DR:
"Thank you for reaching out and sharing your concerns with us. We want to express our sincere apologies for the frustrations and inconvenience caused by the MyCommerce payment delays and lack of communication from our end.
Please know that we are fully aware of the situation and are working diligently to resolve these issues as quickly as possible. Our team is investigating the cause of these delays to ensure they address them effectively and prevent such occurrences.
We understand how important these payments are for you and your business. We are committed to ensuring that all outstanding payments are processed and that our communication with you is clear and timely moving forward."
Yet again. Not an answer.
IF they file a 'chapter' bankruptcy then we probably won't get anything at all, and they get another month's worth of our sales to pay creditors.
Yes, that's IF.
Alternatives to ShareIt/MyCommerce/Digital River
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- KVRian
- 1010 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England
Dave Hoskins. http://www.quikquak.com
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- KVRist
- 249 posts since 13 Jan, 2018 from Duesseldorf, Germany
What a jokequikquak wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2024 3:58 pm DR:
"..Our team is investigating the cause of these delays to ensure they address them effectively and prevent such occurrences."
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- KVRer
- 5 posts since 4 Oct, 2024
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- KVRer
- 4 posts since 5 Oct, 2024
I just wanted to join the discussion in case someone eventually starts a class action lawsuit against them and we would be willing to join. They have around $35,000 USD of our funds, and we are only a small family business and struggling now. Quickly switched to PayPal and manual order processing after no July payment in September. Hoping we can get at least some of this back.
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- KVRist
- 202 posts since 3 Oct, 2024
Not sure a class action lawsuit - or indeed any lawsuit will achieve anything. It might actually have a negative affect forcing the company into administration.
The digital river GmbH company in Cologne (The company holding our money) is an independent german legal entity. Ultimate owner is likely DR in Minnetonka USA but that doesn't mean anything because it's "DR GmbH" that has our money and the buck stops there. (Unless there's been some restructuring and our contracts are with somebody else now? I don't know)
The term "GmbH" is "Gesellschaft mit beschränkte Haftung" meaning "Company with limited liability". So the same as an LLC and or an LTD. Any claim can only be made on the assets of "DR GmbH" and it doesn't matter how much money is in DR USA the buck stops with DR GmbH and DR USA can laugh all the way to the bank.
In the USA a company can file for chapter 11 protection where the company can continue trading protected from its creditors while it attempts to sort out it's problem in the best interest of its creditors. But DR GmbH is not a USA company. It can't file for chapter 11. I don't know if a similar thing to chapter 11 exists in germany. In the UK it is illegal for a uk company to continue trading if it can't pay its debts. The directors are breaking the law if they continue to trade beyond that point.
Any action against DR GmbH could force them into immediate administration and we'd be waiting a long time to get just a few cents on the dollar.
Potential causes of the problems is
#1. They attempted to change their payout schedule from 15 to 60 days and their script crashed. No time to test it. They just went live on 1st October and it simply didn't work and they're stood there scratching their heads. We're all software developers so we know that programs crash. They must have 1000's of accounts to pay out to so it is most certainly an automatic process. You don't think there's a person sat there doing the payouts manually do you?
#2. Another possibility is that DR USA or DR Ireland has been sending BIG invoices to DR GmbH for use of logo or some such made up stuff. DR GmbH has been paying those invoice basically wiping out all DR GmbH's bank account. Getting the money into Ireland reduces the tax because corporation tax in Ireland is a few % lower than in germany. But if DR GmbH was running like some out of control "Pyramid Scheme" then they might have run out of new members and the whole thing is tumbling down.
#3 I don't know. Look at the documents you get from Shareit. There's a new Managing Director. I don't know how long he's been there. Has he (or the old MD) squirrelled away all the money and he's laughing all the way to some offshore bank in the sun?
I kind of think #1 is what happened. But can it recover now? Not unless somebody in DR steps up and makes very quick payouts to slow the droves of people leaving for other MoR providers. I've already gone - last one out switch off the lights.
The digital river GmbH company in Cologne (The company holding our money) is an independent german legal entity. Ultimate owner is likely DR in Minnetonka USA but that doesn't mean anything because it's "DR GmbH" that has our money and the buck stops there. (Unless there's been some restructuring and our contracts are with somebody else now? I don't know)
The term "GmbH" is "Gesellschaft mit beschränkte Haftung" meaning "Company with limited liability". So the same as an LLC and or an LTD. Any claim can only be made on the assets of "DR GmbH" and it doesn't matter how much money is in DR USA the buck stops with DR GmbH and DR USA can laugh all the way to the bank.
In the USA a company can file for chapter 11 protection where the company can continue trading protected from its creditors while it attempts to sort out it's problem in the best interest of its creditors. But DR GmbH is not a USA company. It can't file for chapter 11. I don't know if a similar thing to chapter 11 exists in germany. In the UK it is illegal for a uk company to continue trading if it can't pay its debts. The directors are breaking the law if they continue to trade beyond that point.
Any action against DR GmbH could force them into immediate administration and we'd be waiting a long time to get just a few cents on the dollar.
Potential causes of the problems is
#1. They attempted to change their payout schedule from 15 to 60 days and their script crashed. No time to test it. They just went live on 1st October and it simply didn't work and they're stood there scratching their heads. We're all software developers so we know that programs crash. They must have 1000's of accounts to pay out to so it is most certainly an automatic process. You don't think there's a person sat there doing the payouts manually do you?
#2. Another possibility is that DR USA or DR Ireland has been sending BIG invoices to DR GmbH for use of logo or some such made up stuff. DR GmbH has been paying those invoice basically wiping out all DR GmbH's bank account. Getting the money into Ireland reduces the tax because corporation tax in Ireland is a few % lower than in germany. But if DR GmbH was running like some out of control "Pyramid Scheme" then they might have run out of new members and the whole thing is tumbling down.
#3 I don't know. Look at the documents you get from Shareit. There's a new Managing Director. I don't know how long he's been there. Has he (or the old MD) squirrelled away all the money and he's laughing all the way to some offshore bank in the sun?
I kind of think #1 is what happened. But can it recover now? Not unless somebody in DR steps up and makes very quick payouts to slow the droves of people leaving for other MoR providers. I've already gone - last one out switch off the lights.
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- u-he
- 30206 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
So, Germany has something similar to chapter 11 protection. It furthermore has laws that if the GmbH (like a LLC) deliberately fails, the limited liability vanishes and the owners/administration becomes accountable in full.
There's also
#4 By Kaspersky labs being banned from the US market, DR immediately lost one of its biggest sources of income. The private equity company that owned DR got cold feet and retreated. A new owner came in who is specialised in such situations. The new owners seek to figure out a way to harvest some money, and find loopholes in "contracts" which they enact. They also let go of a substantial number of employees (aka "restructure"). All of these things seem to have happened in July, and I think they are all connected.
So, Siris Capital still lists DR as one of their assets on their website. However, in one of the early emails from someone at DR, we were told that they left and a new owner took hold. When looking at DR website on Wayback Machine, a substantial switch in the board happened in July, with the whole top level leaving and a new guy coming to the top, dubbed "Owner". If he really is "the" owner, that means that Siris Capital isn't. But for whatever reason, there is no news whatsoever about this on the internet. Meaning, they might have deliberately played it quiet, and I suppose we, the source of income, are the audience of this silence.
Now, it is still totally unclear to me what they are trying to pull off. As someone recently said, a non-answer is damning though. The result of #4 can still be #1, #2 and #3. However, #2 and #3 will drop the limited in limited liability since the people calling the shots in the German company are also the people calling the shots in the Irish and American one. I hope they realise that soon.
There's also
#4 By Kaspersky labs being banned from the US market, DR immediately lost one of its biggest sources of income. The private equity company that owned DR got cold feet and retreated. A new owner came in who is specialised in such situations. The new owners seek to figure out a way to harvest some money, and find loopholes in "contracts" which they enact. They also let go of a substantial number of employees (aka "restructure"). All of these things seem to have happened in July, and I think they are all connected.
So, Siris Capital still lists DR as one of their assets on their website. However, in one of the early emails from someone at DR, we were told that they left and a new owner took hold. When looking at DR website on Wayback Machine, a substantial switch in the board happened in July, with the whole top level leaving and a new guy coming to the top, dubbed "Owner". If he really is "the" owner, that means that Siris Capital isn't. But for whatever reason, there is no news whatsoever about this on the internet. Meaning, they might have deliberately played it quiet, and I suppose we, the source of income, are the audience of this silence.
Now, it is still totally unclear to me what they are trying to pull off. As someone recently said, a non-answer is damning though. The result of #4 can still be #1, #2 and #3. However, #2 and #3 will drop the limited in limited liability since the people calling the shots in the German company are also the people calling the shots in the Irish and American one. I hope they realise that soon.
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- KVRist
- 202 posts since 3 Oct, 2024
So if I'd known all this cr*p was going on in July I wouldn't have waited till October. I'd have bailed out as soon as I got that 15-to-60 email. In fact as soon as I got that email I did start building checkout pages to use PayPal and to reactivate dormant 2checkout accounts but decided it was a waste of time and that I could live with 60 days so just stuck with Shareit. Still kicking myself.
I see you're in Berlin. Last time I was in Berlin was back in the 80's. I drove a truck for a company named Beissner out of Hannover. Crossing through east germany every day bringing stuff to west Berlin. You might have ate, used or wiped your ar*e on something I brought in
I see you're in Berlin. Last time I was in Berlin was back in the 80's. I drove a truck for a company named Beissner out of Hannover. Crossing through east germany every day bringing stuff to west Berlin. You might have ate, used or wiped your ar*e on something I brought in
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- u-he
- 30206 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Hahaha, yeah, I only moved to Berlin 25 years ago...
So when a friend from another company called me on or around July 20 telling me about the email about the 60 day delay, and I was on vacation then, the very first thing that came to mind was "they're bankrupt, they just don't know it yet". This wasn't meant to imply malicious behaviour, it just meant that 60 days until payment is simply not competitive, considering that Fastspring does biweekly reports and payments. I was sure that many - if not everyone - was gonna leave DR/MyCommerce.
In the meantime we've been spammed by other MoRs which openly market their platform as alternative to DR since, I paraphrase, "we have a massive influx from there as you've surely heard about..." - this indicates to me that my initial assumption, that people are going to leave them in droves, was somewhat correct.
I think the further delays past then 60 days are probably a reaction to this. I think the new owners gambled when they took over, and to me it seems like they miscalculated how this would pan out.
Dunno.
So when a friend from another company called me on or around July 20 telling me about the email about the 60 day delay, and I was on vacation then, the very first thing that came to mind was "they're bankrupt, they just don't know it yet". This wasn't meant to imply malicious behaviour, it just meant that 60 days until payment is simply not competitive, considering that Fastspring does biweekly reports and payments. I was sure that many - if not everyone - was gonna leave DR/MyCommerce.
In the meantime we've been spammed by other MoRs which openly market their platform as alternative to DR since, I paraphrase, "we have a massive influx from there as you've surely heard about..." - this indicates to me that my initial assumption, that people are going to leave them in droves, was somewhat correct.
I think the further delays past then 60 days are probably a reaction to this. I think the new owners gambled when they took over, and to me it seems like they miscalculated how this would pan out.
Dunno.
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- KVRian
- 1010 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England
I thought Digital River are a private company based in Minnesota, America?
Apparently with a massive revenue:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_R ... 0Minnesota.
Apparently with a massive revenue:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_R ... 0Minnesota.
Dave Hoskins. http://www.quikquak.com
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- u-he
- 30206 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Well, that Wikipedia article is somewhat dated... still says they're publicly traded on Nasdaq and they don't list the latest two CEOs.quikquak wrote: Sun Oct 06, 2024 1:14 pm I thought Digital River are a private company based in Minnesota, America?
Apparently with a massive revenue:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_R ... 0Minnesota.
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- KVRian
- 1010 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England
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- u-he
- 30206 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Sure, but I think most of us are signed up with their Germany company, which used to be ShareIt and now calls its platform MyCommerce.
Afaik Digital River itself has mostly done bigger fish, such as Kaspersky and Microsoft.
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- KVRist
- 202 posts since 3 Oct, 2024
Yes. Digital River Inc in the USA is a different company to Digital River GmbH in germany.
The one that has our money is the german one. It is a separate company from DR in the USA. The USA company likely owns the german company but the german company must pay its own debts and as long as the directors don't intentionally fly it into the ground then the US company can just shrug its shoulders and walk away.
The one that has our money is the german one. It is a separate company from DR in the USA. The USA company likely owns the german company but the german company must pay its own debts and as long as the directors don't intentionally fly it into the ground then the US company can just shrug its shoulders and walk away.
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- KVRer
- 20 posts since 7 Oct, 2024
Hey
Has anybody a link to the full agreement they are talking about?
I cannot find it in the Mycommerce portal.
Has anybody a link to the full agreement they are talking about?
I cannot find it in the Mycommerce portal.
Urs wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2024 3:16 pm "Within 30 calendar days of the end of each calendar month (the "Statement Date"), Digital River will provide a statement [...]"