Native Instruments - Komplete 15

[Vocalpoint Studios]

I don't disagree with you, but I also believe that there is nothing wrong with "asking", in my opinion. Expecting support where none was promised would be wrong.

I get it.

I am all for being a "fan" of anything - I mean hey - whatever floats your boat.

However - I will guess that you have not seen this specific user spinning his "NI on Linux" yarns on a number of other forums as well - including the actual NI site - where he essentially got an answer he did not like and then went off on his Linux promo tour tangent - just like he did here.

But purposely heading into a clearly unsupported scenario, getting nailed when nothing works - and instead of admitting defeat and going home - we get a slight finger wag, a bunch of Windows slams/disinformation (and a psuedo-lecture) on why Linux SHOULD be supported - is about the grift as it gets.

If I want a Linux lesson - I will go find one. It does not need to be disguised as a GR7 issue.

VP

[audiojunkie]

I don't disagree with you, but I also believe that there is nothing wrong with "asking", in my opinion. Expecting support where none was promised would be wrong.

I get it.

I am all for being a "fan" of anything - I mean hey - whatever floats your boat.

However - I will guess that you have not seen this specific user spinning his "NI on Linux" yarns on a number of other forums as well - including the actual NI site - where he essentially got an answer he did not like and then went off on his Linux promo tour tangent - just like he did here.

But purposely heading into a clearly unsupported scenario, getting nailed when nothing works - and instead of admitting defeat and going home - we get a slight finger wag, a bunch of Windows slams/disinformation (and a psuedo-lecture) on why Linux SHOULD be supported - is about the grift as it gets.

If I want a Linux lesson - I will go find one. It does not need to be disguised as a GR7 issue.

VP

I understand. I used to be that way a bit too. Time and experience tempers the idealism. I love Linux, but I am not concerned with what everyone else uses anymore—all OSes are valid and fit different people and different personalities.

Although I will admit that I know the strengths and weaknesses of all three OSes, and I can be quite scathing when throws uneducated shade on Linux.

[bulevardi]

Windows has been great for music since Windows 7. Are blue screens still a thing? I haven't had one for 20 years. What kind of system are you running?

It's Windows 11.
Bought the computer last year with that version pre-installed on it.
I directly installed a dual boot with Linux Mint and worked with that.
(my wife said she perhaps needed Windows someday, so that's why I left it on the system)
Haven't booted in Windows since then, and last week I wanted to test something in Win, so I booted there... and when shutting down, the blue screen popped-up.

10 years ago I had another pc with Windows 7 on it and for some reason it crashed.
I don't know anymore why or what I was doing, perhaps that free upgrade to Win 10 that was around and the system froze while doing so. The original recovery dvd's I had didn't work.
There was no way to get it fixed, and then I discovered a free Linux live-dvd.... I installed it and to my surprise it installed in less than half an hour.... With almost everything working out of the box.
In comparison with my experience with windows that mostly took hours to do the same.

In the company where I work I still have to use Windows (11) and lots of times I think: "why...". Why does my employer spend so much money on licenses for this and that, while the same can be done for free. Just to name one thing.
Yes, of course you can make great music in Windows, also on Mac, but also on Linux.

For some reason people always tend to think a paid option is better or the most expensive is the best.
Perhaps a strange simplistic comparison, but it's a bit like when you have a box of apples and you divide them into 2 baskets. You put both baskets in a shop, one with the description "free to take", the other with the description "€ 5 per kilo".
A research once shown that most people who come to the shop to buy apples will choose the ones from the paying basket, simply because they think they are better.

Apart from that, I have no problem spending money on quality products, especially if they are durable.
That is why I also have paid plugins from e.g. U-He, and I think it is positive that they also release a Linux version. They are not doing anything wrong with it, they only win with it.
It is not at all about which operating system is better than the other, competition is not my thing. But I find availability more important.

[BJ]

Windows has been great for music since Windows 7. Are blue screens still a thing? I haven't had one for 20 years. What kind of system are you running?

It's been great for much longer than that. Some of us have been using it since Windows 3.1. I started using Linux for audio about 5 years ago, and I have no desire to go back. That said, there is nothing wrong with using Windows or MacOs. They are all valid for audio work these days. It comes down to personal preference, as to what a person uses.

I think I started on Windows XP. Many crashes back then but true it was also great.

[Vocalpoint Studios]

"Why...". Why does my employer spend so much money on licenses for this and that, while the same can be done for free.

Because your employer (like the most of us in here) like the fact that paying = hardware compatibility. Paying = huge range of software to choose from and Paying = a built in support network. That is the reason why 99.99% of DAW software vendors only support Windows and Mac.

If I have an issue - I know there are Windows users who will be there for me and I for them.

Over here - because it is a fully paid product environment - I don't need to worry about what Windows 10 22H2 is going to do because it has a support structure that has been watching my back since 2015. All I ever need to worry about is what cab stack and FX am I going to use in GR7 today and get going on that.

That said - if you expect to pay nothing for your OS - you need to come to grips with getting nothing for your hardware expectations, compatibility expectations and especially support expectations.

Apart from that, I have no problem spending money on quality products, especially if they are durable

Then why don't you just get a compatible OS and enjoy your GR7 purchase?

Did you buy GR7 to actually make music or use it as crutch for some Linux pipe dream?

VP

[audiojunkie]

"Why...". Why does my employer spend so much money on licenses for this and that, while the same can be done for free.

Because your employer (like the most of us in here) like the fact that paying = hardware compatibility. Paying = huge range of software to choose from and Paying = a built in support network. That is the reason why 99.99% of DAW software vendors only support Windows and Mac.

If I have an issue - I know there are Windows users who will be there for me and I for them.

Over here - because it is a fully paid product environment - I don't need to worry about what Windows 10 22H2 is going to do because it has a support structure that has been watching my back since 2015. All I ever need to worry about is what cab stack and FX am I going to use in GR7 today and get going on that.

That said - if you expect to pay nothing for your OS - you need to come to grips with getting nothing for your hardware expectations, compatibility expectations and especially support expectations.

Apart from that, I have no problem spending money on quality products, especially if they are durable

Then why don't you just get a compatible OS and enjoy your GR7 purchase?

Did you buy GR7 to actually make music or use it as crutch for some Linux pipe dream?

VP

I think it is useful for people to know that there are fully supported paid options for Linux users as well. I’ve just never had the need. A lot of people don’t realize that, because a lot of people mistakenly equate open source as meaning free as in “Gratis”, rather than free as in “Libre”. The meanings are actually different. A common way people can think of it is, “…free as in freedom, not free as in beer.” That’s not an original quote by me.

The original plan for “open source”, and the way that open source is supposed to work, is that while the code is made available to all, a company (or individual) should be able to make money from their efforts. This is usually done through education, support, and by providing properly compiled binaries. The company that produces the Ardour DAW is an excellent example of this business model. They charge for binaries.

It is unfortunate that so many equate “Open Source” as “Free”. While sometimes true, and altruistic individuals can (and do) release their software for free, I wish more people understood that it is perfectly normal and expected to ask for a payment for open source software.

I try to donate to the developers that I find that produce the software I find most useful. I wish more people did so—that would certainly make open source more popular to developers! As it is though, Open Source users as a whole need to educate people and help bring an end to the misconception that open source software means free.

This is probably the biggest reason why developers don’t want to support Linux—now that the problems of cross distribution binary compatibility has been solved by immutable and atomic next generation Linux distros (with their cloud-native tools like Toolbx and distrobox).

[digitalboytn]

Time and experience tempers the idealism.

I agree....

But despite the harsh realities we find in a rather unforgiving world,it's good to keep the flames of idealism and optimism alive....

Not only for the sake of the art,but al'so for the sake of our heart and soul

[audiojunkie]

Time and experience tempers the idealism.

I agree....

But despite the harsh realities we find in a rather unforgiving world,it's good to keep the flames of idealism and optimism alive....

Not only for the sake of the art,but al'so for the sake of our heart and soul

Agreed!

[bulevardi]

That said - if you expect to pay nothing for your OS - you need to come to grips with getting nothing for your hardware expectations, compatibility expectations and especially support expectations.

I see your point here. But in my personal experience it's the other way around. You can't blame me.
I found myself left alone without support from Microsoft. They couldn't help me back then, while I paid for it.
While at the moment I discovered the Linux world, a whole community with helpful users welcomed me. For free.
Aside that, your point about hardware and compatibility issues can be turned around too.
Lots of linux distributions are lightweight and known to breathe life in old hardware, to extend their usability and save them from being discarded.
That's why I can still use an old pc running Linux that is not supported anymore with Windows.

Then why don't you just get a compatible OS and enjoy your GR7 purchase?

I tried the demo of GR7, I loved the product, UX and sound. I have no problem to pay for good products that I want to support.
But can't I just freely use GR without the obligation to support a 3rd party product I'm not interested in.
Like buying a burger and you obligatory HAVE to drink a coke first in order to get your burger, while you just want water to drink aside.

[Vocalpoint Studios]

I see your point here. But in my personal experience it's the other way around. You can't blame me. I found myself left alone without support from Microsoft. They couldn't help me back then, while I paid for it.

Well - at least you tried. But not knowing your issues, your computer (which sounds like a big box store kinda retail computer), your technical ability or what you were trying to do with it - from a DAW perspective - Microsoft is the last place to go.

You would have had better luck getting your issue examined by the crew here at KVR. Someone in here can always help.

Aside that, your point about hardware and compatibility issues can be turned around too. Lots of linux distributions are lightweight and known to breathe life in old hardware, to extend their usability and save them from being discarded.

That "hardware" is not what I am talking about. There isn't a Linux system on the planet that will ever run my RME UCX-II and that is fact. Again - I am not talking about the OS talking to your monitor. Or your "old" hard drive from 2017.

I am talking about the OS cleanly interfacing with my NI S-Series MKII S61 MIDI board - or any of a thousand other things the crew uses around here. Audio specific hardware. None of this stuff is supported at all under Linux - so beating the "old hardware is cool again" horse is moot.

But can't I just freely use GR without the obligation to support a 3rd party product I'm not interested in?

In the case of GR7 - no you cannot. There is price for admission - for GR and for every other cool VST you might be interested in. You can either pay that price and join the party or sit on the sidelines until you are ready to do that.

But asking for support or workarounds for an vastly unsupported system? You are going to get pushback regardless of what you believe the audio/DAW world should be running.

Currently - It's Windows or it's Mac. Take your pick. Someone will be here for ya.

VP

[audiojunkie]

That said - if you expect to pay nothing for your OS - you need to come to grips with getting nothing for your hardware expectations, compatibility expectations and especially support expectations.

I see your point here. But in my personal experience it's the other way around. You can't blame me.
I found myself left alone without support from Microsoft. They couldn't help me back then, while I paid for it.
While at the moment I discovered the Linux world, a whole community with helpful users welcomed me. For free.
Aside that, your point about hardware and compatibility issues can be turned around too.
Lots of linux distributions are lightweight and known to breathe life in old hardware, to extend their usability and save them from being discarded.
That's why I can still use an old pc running Linux that is not supported anymore with Windows.

Then why don't you just get a compatible OS and enjoy your GR7 purchase?

I tried the demo of GR7, I loved the product, UX and sound. I have no problem to pay for good products that I want to support.
But can't I just freely use GR without the obligation to support a 3rd party product I'm not interested in.
Like buying a burger and you obligatory HAVE to drink a coke first in order to get your burger, while you just want water to drink aside.

I agree. This is a very nice strength of Linux. I can't count the number of machines that were dog slow when running Windows, that suddenly became useful and quick again with a lite distro of Linux. My kids all went through school with third-hand computers that I had paid a few bucks for at a garage sale. They wrote papers, logged in and did their school work, played tons and tons of games, and each machine got an additional 5 years of life out of them after they had become useless with Windows. All of the OSes have strengths and weaknesses. This is a Linux strength.

That said, I wouldn't expect any of these machines that I'm referring to to be able to run Native Instruments 15. Until Native Access 2 and WINE become more compatible with each other, I've pretty much sworn off using Native Instruments products--not because they don't have great libraries, but because it's not worth it to me to go through all of the hoops required to hack and crack to get Native Access 2 working on WINE.

This is the situation that I believe our friend @Bulevardi is experiencing right now. Some programs, no matter how bad you want them to work, just won't work with WINE. The nice thing is that there are plenty of other alternatives that do work properly, without extensive hacks or cracks.

[audiojunkie]

That "hardware" is not what I am talking about. There isn't a Linux system on the planet that will ever run my RME UCX-II and that is fact.

Um...

https://www.rme-usa.com/fireface-ucx-ii ... s%20loaded.

Class Compliant Audio
The Fireface UCX II operates in two different modes: driver-based USB2 and Class Compliant. The Class Compliant mode is a standard that is natively supported by operating systems like Windows, Mac OSX and Linux distributions. No proprietary drivers are required, the device will be directly recognized when the CC firmware is loaded. The natively available features will be limited in comparison to those provided by the RME driver for the UCX II.

https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.ph ... 0Mix%20for

Nothing is perfect, of course.... But most Linux systems on the planet would be able to run quite a bit of the functionality of the RME UCX-II.

[Vocalpoint Studios]

Um...

https://www.rme-usa.com/fireface-ucx-ii ... s%20loaded.

https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.ph ... 0Mix%20for

Nothing is perfect, of course.... But most Linux systems on the planet would be able to run quite a bit of the functionality of the RME UCX-II.

Yep - fair enough - but have never run class compliant mode and have no need to. But good info anyway.

That's one piece of hardware. Now what about the other 18 pieces I have here?

Windows has me covered.

VP

[audiojunkie]

That "hardware" is not what I am talking about. There isn't a Linux system on the planet that will ever run my RME UCX-II and that is fact.

Um...

https://www.rme-usa.com/fireface-ucx-ii ... s%20loaded.

Class Compliant Audio
The Fireface UCX II operates in two different modes: driver-based USB2 and Class Compliant. The Class Compliant mode is a standard that is natively supported by operating systems like Windows, Mac OSX and Linux distributions. No proprietary drivers are required, the device will be directly recognized when the CC firmware is loaded. The natively available features will be limited in comparison to those provided by the RME driver for the UCX II.

https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.ph ... 0Mix%20for

In the case of the Fireface UCX II apparently all of this is accessible through the front panel. This then gets around the usual Linux class compliance problem -- that often a class compliant device loses functionality in Linux because alsamixer does not have all the controls implemented.


Nothing is perfect, of course.... But most Linux systems on the planet would be able to run quite a bit of the functionality of the RME UCX-II.

[audiojunkie]

Um...

https://www.rme-usa.com/fireface-ucx-ii ... s%20loaded.

https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.ph ... 0Mix%20for

Nothing is perfect, of course.... But most Linux systems on the planet would be able to run quite a bit of the functionality of the RME UCX-II.

Yep - fair enough - but have never run class compliant mode and have no need to. But good info anyway.

That's one piece of hardware. Now what about the other 18 pieces I have here?

Windows has me covered.

VP

Ah bummer! I accidentally hit submit, when I was meaning to hit Preview. I wasn't done adding information. Then, KVR did some weird double-posting thing, and things looked messed up. I wasn't planning on you seeing it without all of the information added.