Cherry Audio's next synth is (probably) a Polivoks on steroids

[bobbackwards]

I probably should just stay out of this discussion, but this is KVR, so...I cannot comment intelligently on specific synths but I am fascinated by the course of this gentle debate so I will try to add something by using guitar stuff as an analogy. I don't think most guitars have enough sonic differences to be a good analogy (I know I am inviting hell fire with that comment but please understand it in the context of synths = guitars) so I will use guitar amplifiers, which are closer in both tonal variation and cost. If a super duper awesome 80's synth = Dumble Amplifiers or a Special Edition modded Marshall then my thought is the Juno is like the Fender Bassman, I mean it wasn't even designed for guitar but it figures prominantly on tons of classic and contemporary albums. I don't know that it was particularly cheap compared to other Fenders but my guess is that it was on the lower end. So here is my point - A vintage Bassman now sells for $10,000 + and is considered a "holy grail" type amp because it has been used by so many famous people. I think Juno's are like that (not in price but popularity). People used the Bassman because it worked well, same with the synth. However, to echo Bones' point, I think the Bassman, like the Juno, became a standard not because it was bad or good but because it was readily available. The Bassman sounds good when Brian Setzer plays through it because Brian Setzer is friggin amazing, but I think Setzer played through a Bassman, at least in part, because Buddy Guy and Jimmie Vaugn did. TL;DR I think both viewpoints can be essentially correct and that the use and popularity of certain instruments and gear is as complicated as trying to nail down the popularity and genesis of a genre of music. Hopefully my thougnt have added rather than detracted from the conversation...

[elassi]

Bob, most of the time a xkcd caricature applies to typical KVR debates:


https://xkcd.com/386/

[machinesworking]

TL;DR I think both viewpoints can be essentially correct and that the use and popularity of certain instruments and gear is as complicated as trying to nail down the popularity and genesis of a genre of music. Hopefully my thougnt have added rather than detracted from the conversation...

Yep, all of this discussion turned into people making completely different points, with valid reasons for either view, but no acknowledgment of the others view.

Just the fact we started comparing a Juno clone to a Polivoks clone alone means the conversation is going to get weird. A world recognized cheaper digital hybrid poly with a certain sound VS an arguabley more versatile Soviet era mono somewhat modeled after the Mini with an aggressive filter virtually unknown in Europe and the USA. There isn't any real logical way to compare popularity as merit when one was behind the Iron Curtain.

[BONES]

Maybe but we've kept the thread near the top of the instruments page for a few more days, so that more people might have a chance of discovering that Atomika is out there, which is all we needed to do. The good news is that we haven't come close to adequately answering my original question, we can hope for several more pages of discussion in order to resolve it. I, of course, already know the answer but I'd likely be banned if I was to tell you.

[IvyBirds]

Yep, all of this discussion turned into people making completely different points, with valid reasons for either view, but no acknowledgment of the others view.

There you go again, I did acknowledge the other view and explained why I think it's crap. Again the other view states that people dropped thousands of dollars in a synth that they didn't like the sound of

I think that view is 100% bull crap but you seem to think that view point is correct, yet never seem to explain why.

So again I ask why do you think the sound of the Juno sucks and no one bought it for the sound? That is the other view. The other view wonders why people bother with Juno plugins today because again the other view thinks the sound of the Juno sucks

You continue to ignore why you think the other view is correct. Why? Why don't you acknowledge the other view since you think that is correct

[stoopicus]

“ Cheap for a polysynth in 1982” equals “not actually affordable for most people”. It really is that simple.

The Juno 60 was never cheap, in real terms. As I wrote previously, it cost the equivalent of £4000 in today’s money.

“Do I know how much more other polysynths used to cost?” Yes.

Cheers.

Yes. Sorry if it sounded like I implied otherwise above. Cheap is a relative term when talking about things that were (at the time) in the price range of a used car. In fact, my Ensoniq cost more than my first car.

Was the Juno line inexpensive compared to its competitors? Absolutely.
Were they objectively inexpensive? No, not at all.

[stoopicus]

Yep, all of this discussion turned into people making completely different points, with valid reasons for either view, but no acknowledgment of the others view.

Indeed, kind of amazing really. Or not, XKCD applies as always

[revvy]

“ Cheap for a polysynth in 1982” equals “not actually affordable for most people”. It really is that simple.

The Juno 60 was never cheap, in real terms. As I wrote previously, it cost the equivalent of £4000 in today’s money.

“Do I know how much more other polysynths used to cost?” Yes.

Cheers.

Yes. Sorry if it sounded like I implied otherwise above. Cheap is a relative term when talking about things that were (at the time) in the price range of a used car. In fact, my Ensoniq cost more than my first car.

Was the Juno line inexpensive compared to its competitors? Absolutely.
Were they objectively inexpensive? No, not at all.

No worries. My post wasn’t specifically directed at you and I agree with everything you just wrote.

[BBFG#]

Didn't realize that some see posting for threads being at the top is a competition.
And with the last few pages I'd completely forgot it was about CA Atomnka!

[machinesworking]

Didn't realize that some see posting for threads being at the top is a competition.
And with the last few pages I'd completely forgot it was about CA Atomnka!

I don't think Bones meant it that way, his reasoning I think is more about really liking Atomika and wanting more publicity for it so companies like Cherry do more synths like it etc. I suppose it's competition in the lines of cheerleading?

[BONES]

@BBFG -Nobody has said that, you have made the implication because it suits you to see it that way. My purpose is to help promote an instrument I happen to really like and keeping it on the first page of the forum, where people can see that it exists, will help in that regard.

Again the other view states that people dropped thousands of dollars in a synth that they didn't like the sound of

At no point has anyone but you said that. Read what's f**king written on the f**king page.

I think that view is 100% bull crap but you seem to think that view point is correct, yet never seem to explain why.

Probably because both he and I were actually buying synths at that time and discussing such things with others who were also buying synths. I spent many thousands of dollars on synths I didn't particularly like the sound of, because how they sounded was far less important than other things, like polyphony, patch memory and MIDI. The CZ-101 I bought, for example, sounded quite tinny compared to the instruments it replaced but its 4 voice multi-timbral capability simplified my set-up by an order of magnitude, which was well worth the trade-off at the time.

So again I ask why do you think the sound of the Juno sucks

Again, nobody has said that.

[machinesworking]

Yep, all of this discussion turned into people making completely different points, with valid reasons for either view, but no acknowledgment of the others view.

There you go again, I did acknowledge the other view and explained why I think it's crap. Again the other view states that people dropped thousands of dollars in a synth that they didn't like the sound of

I think that view is 100% bull crap but you seem to think that view point is correct, yet never seem to explain why.

So again I ask why do you think the sound of the Juno sucks and no one bought it for the sound? That is the other view. The other view wonders why people bother with Juno plugins today because again the other view thinks the sound of the Juno sucks

You continue to ignore why you think the other view is correct. Why? Why don't you acknowledge the other view since you think that is correct

This is called a straw man argument, you can look it up if for some gawdawful reason you've managed to never hear the term. It's not worth responding to because I never said anything like what you claim I did. I can try but I think you're wound up and nothing I say will get through.

Simply put the Juno has one or two great sounds, but it's a super simple synth, people used it almost exclusively with it's chorus on, and the 80's were filled with that sound. No doubt about that.


On the other hand the Polivoks was made behind the Iron Curtain, the whole point of the discussion breaks down because you personally don't like the sound of the soft synth version. So you've spent pages and pages coming up with straw men to attack about how the Juno is obviously the superior product and it's because it's got a great clean sound and all kinds of non quantifiable reasons to make your point.

Again, it's not even possible to quantify the popularity of the Polivoks VS the Juno since the availability of the synths were on completely different levels. Then there's time and place, the Juno in the early 80's for sure, but by the 90's you couldn't give them away. That isn't really here nor there as far as the value of the synth, it's just the market.

You personally don't like Atomika and you keep trying to use the market in 1982 or the TAL thread here as proof that it's not as kewl as the Juno. Of course people are going to have something to say about that.

[BBFG#]

And still no return to the plugin itself...

[machinesworking]

And still no return to the plugin itself...

Well my only real complaint is I would love if it had the MPE features some of their other synths have. I'm glad they went with solid recreation on the basic controls but poly aftertouch and MPE features would have bene icing.

[IvyBirds]

You personally don't like Atomika and you keep trying to use the market in 1982 or the TAL thread here as proof that it's not as kewl as the Juno. Of course people are going to have something to say about that.

Way to build that Strawman argument, I actually do like the Atomika and have even mentioned in this this thread how I asked my brother in law to buy me the hardware Polivocks if he found one in his travels to the former Soviet Union

My entire point which you fail to acknowledge is that the Juno was popular because of its sound and the fact you could get that sound at a great value

You have indicated that you think Bones is correct when he sates that people in the 1980s didn't buy it for it's sound but because it was cheap, and he can't fathom why anyone likes them in 2024.

This is what he said, and that I responded to

What I find equally interesting is that the Junos are so well regarded these days. At the time they were cheap, entry-level instruments whose main attributes were patch memory and a decent number of keys for not a lot of money. They sold on price, not sound. I honestly can't recall ever seeing one on stage back in the day.

What else is he talking about besides the sound? It's a $89 plugin that goes on sale for even less. So price is no longer a factor, and there are a ton of plugins that are way cheaper than TAL-Pha

And despite your revisionist Strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks against me, I love Cherry Audio and own most of their products. Voltage Modular is one of my favorite pieces of software and I own many of their Synths and their modules for VM

I will probably buy Atomika during the Black Friday sale, Cherry Audio always has a good sale on Black Friday, is it something I will use a lot? Nope but it's something I would like to have in my arsenal and I like to support Cherry Audio when I can

I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop the Strawman and ad hominem attacks against me

Thanks