KVR Audio

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:17 pm

You could definitely mention quantum storage, yes. Which will either be digital storage, or analogue, depending on how they implement it. Even if the medium changes, you still only have two choices; store a continous data stream, or a time-quanstised data stream.

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:22 pm

In biological terms, how would you define neurone operation?

We still have a lot to learn about utilising the storage potential of materials. Maybe we will be using biological recording/storage in the future.. I digress..

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:24 pm

UltraJv wrote:Maybe we will be using biological recording/storage in the future.. I digress..

Are you offering your own flesh?

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:26 pm

hahahahhahah

duncanparsons · Post by **duncanparsons** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:27 pm

Midiworks wrote:Stone and paper are the only medium that survived
the test of time and mouth to mouth of course...

All the rest is just :violin: :harp: Dust in the wind :harp: :violin:

Paper degrades, as does rock, but at a slower rate. the question of interpretation is still a problem. the Rosetta Stone helps alot with some things (so long as you don't turn the bass up too much..).

Mouth to Mouth.. well, first there's Chinese Whispers, and second, again interpretation. For instance, we know that 'Ring a ring a roses' is about the black death, but who was 'Humpty Dumpty'? When doing my degree, I found a paper about the origins of the Humpty Dumpty rhyme. It wasn't just invented by Dodgson for the Alice book, but has it's roots in european mediaeval literature. Sadly, I never read far enough to get to the bottom of it. {I was looking for a paper on memory loss (ironically) since I did a Psychology degree. I had got to the end of the Psy journals and had accidentally picked up some obscure journal. I doubt I could ever find it again!}

Equally with 1/4" tape, there's the question of tape speed and bias level (tho' these are standardised, there are variations. If your player suffered motor problems, what's to say another unit in 100years won't have different problems).

Digital.. well CDs are hard enough to read even when you have the technology (focussing a laser and correctly reading the refractions is actually quite a complex problem), let alone interpret the data afterwards - DVD the problems get worse; DAT, again you have speed and bias levels to contend with. With all digital there is what to do with those zeros and ones. Is it a picture, if so, how long are the lines? Is it a sound, if so, do 8 digits represent a segment of the sound, or do 10, or 32? then, how fast do I need to play them? Is it a text document? If so, is it 7bit text? is it 8bit? is it 16 bit? if so is it BigEndian or LittleEndian?

Analogue is the least problematic in general in terms of communication. The light that reaches our eyes, and the air particles that hit our ear drums follow analogue patterns. The Earth revolves around the sun in a analogue fashion; when I drop an apple, it moves smoothly, and not just because I have a super antialiased gravitational algorithm.

Digital, is the more convenient medium for transfer. The 1:1 ratio is nothing to be sneezed at, but how accurate is the data to start with? I can get perfect copies of 4bit sounds and they could replay perfectly in 2000 years time - but it will still sound pants.

So what are we to do?

Exactly what we are doing, I guess - making the best of what is available to us, enjoying nostalgia with a practical present day focus...

DSP

Markleford · Post by **Markleford** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:33 pm

duncanparsons wrote:So what are we to do?

1) Archive copies on different brands of digital media.

2) Store them in separate locations (physical or networked)

3) Use checksums to ensure data integrity upon retrieval.

4) Re-archive your old archives within a perceived window of "media freshness".

5) Recognize that music survives the encoded audio that it takes as a temporary form.

- m

duncanparsons · Post by **duncanparsons** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:37 pm

Markleford wrote:
duncanparsons wrote:So what are we to do?
1) Archive copies on different brands of digital media.

2) Store them in separate locations (physical or networked)

3) Use checksums to ensure data integrity upon retrieval.

4) Re-archive your old archives within a perceived window of "media freshness".

5) Recognize that music survives the encoded audio that it takes as a temporary form.

- m

like I said:
Exactly what we are doing, I guess - making the best of what is available to us, enjoying nostalgia with a practical present day focus...

I guess I like the sweeping statement, and you the pragmatic!

DSP

seamoss · Post by **seamoss** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:40 pm

Sicklecell666 wrote:I better get another Space Echo & have my kicks while I still can..

All those tape replacements for that unit were taken out of production years ago as well if I'm not mistaken..

There will definately be a sore spot where tape existed..

Devices like the Roland Space Echo only represent a small portion of that..

roland space & chorus echos rule

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:44 pm

[quote="UltraJv quoth In biological terms, how would you define neurone operation?

Ummm, if you mean "in storage terms, what class of storage do you consider neurons to be"

then analogue, obviously.

Although neural material could, conceivably be used as a digital storage medium, like any other analogue-cpable material.

We still have a lot to learn about utilising the storage potential of materials. Maybe we will be using biological recording/storage in the future.. I digress..

Maybe. But it'll still either be a recording of a continuous data stream, or a time quantised data stream

bugs · Post by **bugs** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:44 pm

There must be at least a few advantages of digital over analogue tape. Why else would everyone be using it?

My experience is that tape was very difficult to work with. Everytime it was played it degraded. That warm analogue sound was a result of distortion, not purity. It just kept getting "warmer and warmer" until you couldn't hear the recording through the noise. And the manipulation of tape was a total nightmare. Cut and paste was literally that. Those who are nostalgic for tape obviously never really tried worked with it.

UltraJv · Post by **UltraJv** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:46 pm

whyterabbyt - I was refering to brain matter, no one knows how that works - its neither anolgue nor digital

Sicklecell666 · Post by **Sicklecell666** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:50 pm

UltraJv wrote:whyterabbyt - I was refering to brain matter, no one knows how that works - its neither anolgue nor digital

hmm..guess you won't be volunteering after all..

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:51 pm

I do actually know what neurons are. But no, no-one knows how the data is encoded. That doesnt mean that the data somehow falls into a different category.

ericj23 · Post by **ericj23** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:52 pm

no its analogue

digital means comprising of zeros and ones - there is no such coding in your brain - its all analogue

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:53 pm

bugs has a point- Im sure there were peope sitting in studios pulling their hair out when an artist or producer said " I like that bit, I want to repeat that, no lets move it to the beginning. hmmm after hearing it there, lets move it back. wait, lets just loop it."

In my limited experience with tape loops, what a hideous undertaking. I bet that most tape loops used in the 60s and 70s were more a matter of luck than fine editing... there is no 1:1 waveform view to find your loop points. I dont think that digital recording and technology was invented by accident. It was invented to solve the problems that we have forgotten about...

Analog multitrack recording is dead...