Cherry Audio's next synth is (probably) a Polivoks on steroids

[machinesworking]

If you "improve" the Minimoog it's no longer a Minimoog

Oh come on? Almost every single Mini emulation is a poly synth. That's far beyond adding a sub osc to it to get some low end, and it's entirely reasonable to do both of those things.

IMO the best emulations are dead accurate but go beyond the original, the Polivoks does not have a Starve or drive for the filter or a drive for the amp and again it's a mono synth.

[IvyBirds]

If you "improve" the Minimoog it's no longer a Minimoog

Oh come on? Almost every single Mini emulation is a poly synth. That's far beyond adding a sub osc to it to get some low end, and it's entirely reasonable to do both of those things.

Sure but that's not what he is talking about. He is talking about fundamentally changing the character of the filter

You could always have a polyphonic minimoog by chaining them together or multi tracking but they still had the same filter

Before we go down this rabbit hole again, can we actually read what Bones is talking about and can you please not set up yet more Strawman arguments. No one is taking about polyphony or adding a drive button, we are talking specifically about the Ladder filter that gives the Minimoog it's iconic sound

Again Bones considers the Moog ladder filter to be a f*uck up that needs to be improved

Here is what he wrote and what I am responding to. You notice no one is talking about Polyphony but instead about the former and why he thinks it should be fundamentally altered and "improved"

If you do that it is no longer a Minimoog, but I get it, you must defend Bones at all costs

You probably know that I think that the ladder filter in a MiniMoog is complete krap and I can back that up by pointing out how raising the resonance attenuates the bottom end, ruining all the good work it's huge oscillators are trying to do.

No, it is simply perpetuating a f**k-up, instead of making something better......It's something that is broken and needed to be fixed. So if it is a tool, then, like the hardware it's based on, it's not a very good one.....The filter just f**ks it up......No, it simply doesn't work as it should,

it limits the usefulness of the instrument

But please explain to me how you can read that and think I was talking about Polyphony

[CinningBao]

...typical BONES bilge...

Why not shut up telling people how to think about their tools.
You tool.

[bobbackwards]

The thing about software is that anything within the capability of the code/coder can be done. Sound quality has improved as computers have become more powerful and coders can take advantage of that processor power. If someone wants "that sound" there are probably multiple soft-synths that will accomodate you. The thing about Atomika is that it is emulating a very niche piece of hardware with a unique sound. A good player/producer can make anything sound good, but your regular hobbyist just wants "that sound." Being able to drop a soft-synth into your mix that has a specific palette is the beauty of modern "in the box" music making. CA has done a good job of that at a hobbyists price point. I say "good show" and keep it up.

[machinesworking]

Sure but that's not what he is talking about. He is talking about fundamentally changing the character of the filter
.....
But please explain to me how you can read that and think I was talking about Polyphony

It might surprise you that people respond to blanket statements that you make as well as Bones. I have no issue with you arguing with him about the ladder filter, I responded again to this:

If you "improve" the Minimoog it's no longer a Minimoog

Minimonsta adds a sub, all of them almost add polyphony, and yes, that fundamentally changes the instrument.

My point is again, I like my emulations to be dead on as possible, but there's no reason not to add in a sub, polyphony etc. Kind of like how the Polivoks again, does not have drive knobs for it's filter or amp, or a Starve knob.

There is a middle ground here, you don't want a Mini that doesn't sound like a Mini, and that's valid, but adding in a sub osc is a fantastic idea.

[IvyBirds]

Sure but that's not what he is talking about. He is talking about fundamentally changing the character of the filter
.....
But please explain to me how you can read that and think I was talking about Polyphony

It might surprise you that people respond to blanket statements that you make as well as Bones. I have no issue with you arguing with him about the ladder filter, I responded again to this:

If you "improve" the Minimoog it's no longer a Minimoog

Minimonsta adds a sub, all of them almost add polyphony, and yes, that fundamentally changes the instrument.

My point is again, I like my emulations to be dead on as possible, but there's no reason not to add in a sub, polyphony etc. Kind of like how the Polivoks again, does not have drive knobs for it's filter or amp, or a Starve knob.

There is a middle ground here, you don't want a Mini that doesn't sound like a Mini, and that's valid, but adding in a sub osc is a fantastic idea.

And yet when I responded to you making a blanket statement about how he was "RIGHT" when he made a blanket statement that people didn't buy the Juno for its sound, you accused me of all kinds of things

Can you please pick a side? But nice Strawman argument about blanket statements. You are hilarious

[Shabdahbriah]

[...] a blanket statement that people didn't buy the Juno for its sound [...]

My first synth was a Juno 60, which I definitely bought for its sound. Just sayin'.

[machinesworking]

And yet when I responded to you making a blanket statement about how he was "RIGHT" when he made a blanket statement that people didn't buy the Juno for its sound, you accused me of all kinds of things

Can you please pick a side? But nice Strawman argument about blanket statements. You are hilarious

No, I don't need to pick a side, WTF is wrong with you? I'm being serious here. You have serious black and white thinking issues, it's not any wonder you and Bones hit it off so well.

You literally have been parroting my comment about your inability to see any sort of middle ground, now all you can do is attempt to use the same word, straw man straw man straw man straw man straw man straw man straw man straw man straw man straw man straw man straw man over and over like a broken record.

Seriously this f**king thread isn't about your love of the Juno, or your inability to disagree. People are either in agreement with you or not by now and all you're doing is derailing a thread about the Polivoks clone Atomica.

[IvyBirds]

And yet when I responded to you making a blanket statement about how he was "RIGHT" when he made a blanket statement that people didn't buy the Juno for its sound, you accused me of all kinds of things

Can you please pick a side? But nice Strawman argument about blanket statements. You are hilarious

No, I don't need to pick a side, WTF is wrong with you? I'm being serious here. You have serious black and white thinking issues

And yet you said

People are either in agreement with you or not by now and all you're doing is derailing a thread about the Polivoks clone Atomica.

Oh who is making black and white statements? That would be you

And I am not derailing anything. You are the one who continues to go on the attack against me over and over and over. Your own personal hypocrisy is rather stunning. You didn't have to respond and go on the attack against me talking about the Minimoog filter, and you didn't have to go on the attack once again in this post that I am responding to

It's simple really, Bones said he thinks the Juno sucks and people didn't buy it for it's sound. That was a blanket statement the kind you pretend you don't like, yet you said it was correct and then derailed this thread attacking me over it, then he said the Minimoog filter sucked and I disagreed. You were free not to respond yet you went on the attack again

So again I ask, can you please pick a side? Either you want to actually keep this thread only about Atomika or you don't. Your own behavior indicates you do don't, your hypocritical rhetoric suggests otherwise. Your hypocrisy needs to pick a side

[BONES]

would you like Atomika if they made it better so it was very clean and didn't have a filthy filter that could create distortion? Of course not

How would that be "better"? It would just be another generic synth like 50 others I already have. What makes it worth having is the fact that it's not "clean" and it does have a "filthy filter".

When you make an emulation of a classic synth you emulate it the best you can, you don't make "improvements". The Minimoog is used on kinds of classic records including for bass

So what? That doesn't make it any good, it just means that's what was available at the time. How many of the artists on those records kept using their Model D's once better synths came out? I'll tell you - none of them.

If you "improve" the Minimoog it's no longer a Minimoog

Which is precisely what makes it worth having. Look how much better The Legend HZ is, compared to the original The Legend - it's chalk and cheese. Similarly, MiniMonsta is much more useful with GForce's upgrades than their original emulation was. In fact, that's true of pretty much every emulation out there. They are only worth having because they've been dragged, kicking and screaming, into the modern age. Honestly, who would want them if you couldn't save patches, if they were monophonic and couldn't be sequenced?

He is talking about fundamentally changing the character of the filter

Which is exactly what GForce have done and just go and see how well that's been received. I'll give you a few cherry-picked quotes - "The bass-preserving filter is a great idea" and "The option of maintaining the bass is great to see". That's just page 1, before a long list of people unable to access the server to buy it kicked in.

You could always have a polyphonic minimoog by chaining them together

How would you achieve that without MIDI? CV+Gate might let you play the same note on multiple instruments but that's about it.

the Ladder filter that gives the Minimoog it's iconic sound

Except it wasn't unique, lots of others copied it because it was so cheap. e.g. ARP's Odyssey had one until Moog sent them a legal letter telling them to find something else. What made the Model D worth having were it's oscillators.

Again Bones considers the Moog ladder filter to be a f*uck up that needs to be improved

As did Bob Moog.

If you do that it is no longer a Minimoog

Who cares? Who wouldn't want a better synth if someone made one? And if they didn't, why would everyone make them with lots of better/extra features?

[oscillik]

Oh boy! Unread posts in the Atomika thread

[Shabdahbriah]

^^^

[stoopicus]

Oh boy! Unread posts in the Atomika thread

It's morning, so it's time to update the thread

Ok here's my Atomika story to make it relevant. I was jamming in my little music room with Atomika earlier this week and my wife came in and closed my door “because it was too scary.”

Polivoks mission accomplished

[mutagen]

Oh boy! Unread posts in the Atomika thread

I thought this was the Juno nostalgia and appreciation thread?

[Shabdahbriah]

Oh boy! Unread posts in the Atomika thread

I thought this was the Juno nostalgia and appreciation thread?

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