Pick or pluck?

[Sascha Franck]

Right on, TexasMusicForge - I was allready wondering why nobody else has been mentioning that "hybrid" technique yet.
I use that VERY often for all sorts of stuff, even on distorted sounds, as it gives you a very concrete and even attack throughout all the strings, rather than a scratchy pick feel.
In addition, I use my little finger for this as well.

There's some rather fabulous players making extensive use of this technique, just to name Albert Lee and Danny Gatton (rip).
Also making much sense for jazzy chords when you still need to throw in the occasional pick line.

Thing here is, that nails don't support this technique too well - more to the opposite. The angle between the picking fingers and the strings is getting really steep, so you might just produce unwanted clicking noises and even find your nails somewhat "caught" under your strings.
So, in case you got classically shaped nails, this technique might not be for you.

Regarding classical style, there's a great variety of picking styles as well.
As an example, Fernando Sor, guru of the classical guitar etude, never used nails at all. I even seem to remember (well, not personally, I'm not THAT old) that during the beginning of the last century there's been almost some sort of war between nailed and non-nailed enthusiasts.
From a historic point of view, nails haven't been used that much on the predecessors of the guitar - namely lutes and such. And even today, when you study lute, you won't use nails.

Apparently it's getting rather popular to use another hybrid technique for classical guitar as well, such as using both the fingertips and nails. The tip would then be responsible for the strength of the tone, with the nails only used as a support to add some sharpness.
Btw, this is woirking relatively well with the pick and finger technique too, just that steel strings tend to destroy your nails rather easily, unless you have really thick ones.

[duncanparsons]

Ok. Have to remove only from my sentence. I have seen classical guitarists produce sounds from their guitars all kinds of strange ways. Scratching strings, tapping body with fingers etc.

Edit. About software. I heard guy telling about virtual model of guitar where fingers softer part, bone inside the finger, nails, all kinds things on guitar that resonate have been modelled. Heard some samples too. Very convincing. At that time it was not real time synth yet.

Not just classical - folk too. If you can dig up any Gordon Giltrap, it's fabulous. He did three excellent albums in the last 70s (Visionary, Perilous Journey and Fear of the Dark) which were just superb. There were others too, like Peacock Party, Live and a fwe others. Anything is worth having, but those I bracketted are worth finding.

DSP

[Stupid American Pig]

well putting aside the question of style, who plays how and what not, I am a firm believer that you should always try to get better at whatever you play. For that reason alone, I think that you should learn to fingerpick...

[Beardedone]

Looking back I wished I learned to play better fingerstyle. So many great players didn't use a pick from Wes Montgomery to Joe Pass. Montgomery's lines sure were beautifully played with a much better attack than many can get with a pick. Many players use both pick aind fingers and I now find it essential to be able to switch. If you watch Pat Metheny play he is constantly switches from picking to fingering with a pick ready to use taped onto the body of the guitar or in his mouth. I read recently that John McLaughlin wished he had learned to play with his fingers instead of with apick and cited how superbly Paco DeLucia plays. DeLucia is brillaint and powerful. I once saw the trio of DeLucia, McLaughlin and DiMelola up close (front row center) and witnessed DeLucia right in the midst of playing tear off a nail with his teeth and continue playing as if nowthing had happened - McLaughlin saw and almost fell off his seat laughing - it was a great moment.

[virtual virtuoso]

Danny Gatton (rip)

I just realised that I'm ten years behind

RIP
tom

[virtual virtuoso]

btw I always feel I need a LOT of training if I want to play an electric guitar with my fingers (don't like finger picks at all). An acoustic (nylon or steel) seems to be much more forgiving to an amateur right hand ). Chords usually work well however but pickings never do ...

Another q. - what kind of picks do others use? - I always use soft/thin ones because with the stronger ones I seem to get hooked into the string every once in a while. At least they require much more training time. Do people play metal with stronger picks?

tom

[Sascha Franck]

Another q. - what kind of picks do others use? - I always use soft/thin ones because with the stronger ones I seem to get hooked into the string every once in a while. At least they require much more training time. Do people play metal with stronger picks?

Dunlop "USA Nylons", 1 mm for the usual stuff, .88 or even thinner for acoustic strumming and Dunlop Jazz III for jazzy and partially funky stuff on the semi-acoustic.

Love the dunlops because they don't feel sticky with sweaty fingers due to their "grip" surface.
They also don't wear off (read: get scratchy) too fast.

[smp]

the uniqueness of Knopfler's sound comes very much with him using the little finger of his right hand to turn the volume knob up and down all the time for reducing the atack of the pick

Maybe. All I can say is that on this DVD there were many close up shots of Knopfler playing and not once was there a pick in his hand (or teeth, or palmed, or attached to his guitar in some form)

However, I was very impressed with the way his fingers were all over the place adjusting all manner of things and all without missing a beat. A true testament to skill through practice

[smp]

I've been learning the guitar for about a year now (classic acoustic only) and in that time I've only ever used a pick (except for when I couldn't find one 'cos I couldn't remember where I'd put it down and then found I still had it in my mouth ).

I studied classical guitar for a while. Nylon stringed is classical, steel stringed acoustic is not. Pure classical guitar is played with finger nails only. In the beginning of lessons my teacher would check my right hands nails and file them if they were not correct.

Classical technique is, I am reliably informed, largely finger picking. On the other hand, I was just pointing out that the guitar I am learning to play is a classic acoustic with nylon strings, as compared to a steel-string acoustic. I thought it might be a relevant piece of info, but maybe not.

When playing electric guitar I prefer plectrum. I hold plectrum like my hand is forming a fist. My thumb is resting on my index finger ( I am not quite sure if its called index finger, english is not my mother tongue) and plectrum is between them.

As far as I understand it, this is pretty much the standard technique for holding the plec, isn't it? While sometimes I slip into bad habits, it tends to get uncomfortable and then I notice my grip has slipped and needs readjusting. One of the benefits of not being self-taught I guess

-s

[funkynuts]

Another q. - what kind of picks do others use? - I always use soft/thin ones because with the stronger ones I seem to get hooked into the string every once in a while. At least they require much more training time. Do people play metal with stronger picks?

tom

I use very strong picks for several reasons:

I prefer the stronger attack and weightier sound they provide

I dislike the papery sound a light pick adds ,especially to strummed chords

I find a stronger picks make pinched harmonics etc. easier to produce.

In general a stronger pick gives better overall control especially on fast or intricately picked passages.



I play a mixture of rock,blues,funk,folk,rnb, classical and metal and will always use a good solid pick.

Light picks are for Big Jessies

[smp]

Incidentally, I ask this question mainly because I'm curious over anything else. At 26, I started playing the guitar because I had always wanted to learn. My guitar teacher knows that this is purely for fun on my part and he has been particulary non-doctrinal. Because I'm not sitting exams on my playing etc he has been very much along the lines of do whatever you are most comfortable with, and I'll help you from there. As such, I haven't got much grounding in what is "technically" correct as my goals when I started learning was to get a handle of the basics to play songs half-drunk at parties when someone brings out a guitar and maybe impress a few people (but not to impress the chicks - according to my wife it would take a lot more than a couple of half-drunk guitar classics to do that ).

Maybe my goals and interests are changing and I need to reevaluate the direction of my learning. I love learning new things....

[jens]

the uniqueness of Knopfler's sound comes very much with him using the little finger of his right hand to turn the volume knob up and down all the time for reducing the atack of the pick

Maybe. All I can say is that on this DVD there were many close up shots of Knopfler playing and not once was there a pick in his hand (or teeth, or palmed, or attached to his guitar in some form)

However, I was very impressed with the way his fingers were all over the place adjusting all manner of things and all without missing a beat. A true testament to skill through practice

what do you mean with 'a pick in his hand'?

Do you mean 'a plec in his hand'?

If so: I've never written that he uses any plec - he doesn't.

I've written something completely different.

In other words: your reply doesn't fit at all to that post of mine you quoted.

[Sascha Franck]

In other words: your reply doesn't fit at all to that post of mine you quoted.

No, your words were easy to be misunderstood for english speakers.
I think with "pick" you meant the "stroke".
In english, they usually don't say "plec" or even "plectrum" - but "pick".

[smp]

what do you mean with 'a pick in his hand'?

Do you mean 'a plec in his hand'?

If so: I've never written that he uses any plec - he doesn't.

I've written something completely different.

In other words: your reply doesn't fit at all to that post of mine you quoted.

Sorry Jens, it's an honest mistake on my part. Maybe it's just a local thing, but over the years I've often heard the plec also referred to as a 'pick' and in my limited experience I often hear the two used interchangably. It's probably a bad habit of mine that I should work on changing.

Anyway, I misread what you wrote and assumed that you meant changing the attack of using a 'pick'(or, as you would say, a plec) instead of the attack of his finger picking action. My fault

Hope that clears that up.

-s

[funkynuts]

what do you mean with 'a pick in his hand'?

Do you mean 'a plec in his hand'?

If so: I've never written that he uses any plec - he doesn't.

I've written something completely different.

In other words: your reply doesn't fit at all to that post of mine you quoted.

Sorry Jens, it's an honest mistake on my part. Maybe it's just a local thing, but over the years I've often heard the plec also referred to as a 'pick' and in my limited experience I often hear the two used interchangably. It's probably a bad habit of mine that I should work on changing.

Anyway, I misread what you wrote and assumed that you meant changing the attack of using a 'pick'(or, as you would say, a plec) instead of the attack of his finger picking action. My fault

Hope that clears that up.

-s

Nah mate, its a widely accepted practice to call a plectrum a pick or a plec,no shortened version of a word can ever be the "correct" one, as it is already an incorrect version of the word because it has been shortened, thus made impure.

f**k it..some days i call it a pick .some days a plec,it really depends on what those i,m trying to communicate with use .

In order to aid common understanding ,i think it is appropriate and acceptable to veer away from the absolute, "correct" form of language and submit to the powerful undertow of "common usage."

its fair to say you misunderstood Jens post and nice of you to apologize, but don,t let that stop you calling a pick what you want.

Ah the wonders of language....