Teenage Engineering OP XY (Field)

[ChiTown24]

I think they can justify the price they’re asking.

lol, how ?

But, for all they packed into it and all the additions due to negative responses on other releases…

the negative responses re: the OP Z were very poor build quality. The best way to address that is by making an OP Z with acceptable build quality, surely ? Not by creating an entirely new device that's more than 500% of the price ? They couldn't build an OP Z without widespread and enduring build quality issues ? Not even for another $100 ? They had to take the nuclear option, and try and up-sell those OP Z owners with sticky buttons and faulty dials, to buy a $2,300 OP Z ? lol ?

the other common negative responses re: other devices have been price. so, ya, I don't believe the OP XY is addressing that issue ...

While this is the likely the most portable device with its number of features

iPad: am I a joke to you ?

an iPad, of any size or power, plus an SP404mk2, is an infinitely more feature packed combo for less than half the price. The SP404mk2 acts as a controller + midi/audio interface, as well as serving as an SP404mk2. If you would offer me an OP XY for free, which I had to keep and use and could never sell, or an iPad + SP404mk2 that I had to keep and use and never sell, I would take the iPad + SP404mk2 combo, all day - every day. Purely based on features. In practise it would be no less portable.

OP XY is only marginally more portable. And another aspect to portability isn't just dimensions, it's the price. Who is really putting their $2,300 OP XY in their back pocket, and jamming on the bus ? I'd be amazed if more than 10% of OP's were having their portability exploited to the fullest - i.e by leaving the house and being used 'on the go', as opposed to in bed or in the lounge - assuming it even leaves the studio at all.

also, people really need to get over this narrative the these Teenage Engineering products are the price they have to be. TE are a well established, high profile company with a lot of brand recognition and credibility. Why are people so willing to believe that TE can't take advantage of economy of scale production realities ? They're too much of a 'little guy', boutique cottage industry company, for relevant manufacturing factories to work with them ? There simply aren't enough people interested in OP like devices, to exploit economy of scale ? Yet somehow every other company can make it work ? even the other 'little guy', boutique cottage industry type companies ?

This is by choice. The price tag is highfalutin, to make the marketing highfalutin, to make the industrial design highfalutin. They sell their products in the Museum of Modern Art ffs. Even when they made an affordable product with the pocket operators, they had to make a point of making it more or less a barebones pcb board - this is just marketing psychology fuckery imo.

I love the pocket operators by the way, I own and play with multpiple and I have an OG OP1 that I snagged for a 'steal' (about 700 euro) over at Thomann when they had some kind of glitch, or blowout, I think prior to it being rumored to being discontinued - and the price went back up again a day later. I think this was a period of time when some minor updates were being made to the hardware, so there may have been some confusion over at Thomann as to the future of the product. Anyways, I was quick and snagged one - but even 700-ish is an extravagance imo. And they just keep jumping the shark ever since. Just when you think you've seen how far they can push it, they come back a year later and push it some more - and still you'll find people actually convinced the prices are justified.

This is 'The Emporer's New Clothes' type of stuff.

I mean, just look at this - 300 euro for a frigging 'leather wrap':
https://teenage.engineering/store/op-1- ... olor=black

it is what it is, but people who think the price is justified in terms of bang-for-buck, or necessary due to production costs, etc, aren't just drinking the kool aid - they are mainlining it into their arteries.

I would much sooner entertain someone's arguments justifying the price if their arguments are based on it being an interactive piece of collectible art or some such coping strategy along those lines - at least such arguments are based in the ethereal, and not the real world - where the price is a joke.

[elxsound]

I think they can justify the price they’re asking.

lol, how ?

But, for all they packed into it and all the additions due to negative responses on other releases…

the negative responses re: the OP Z were very poor build quality. The best way to address that is by making an OP Z with acceptable build quality, surely ? Not by creating an entirely new device that's more than 500% of the price ? They couldn't build an OP Z without widespread and enduring build quality issues ? Not even for another $100 ? They had to take the nuclear option, and try and up-sell those OP Z owners with sticky buttons and faulty dials, to buy a $2,300 OP Z ? lol ?

the other common negative responses re: other devices have been price. so, ya, I don't believe the OP XY is addressing that issue ...

While this is the likely the most portable device with its number of features

iPad: am I a joke to you ?

an iPad, of any size or power, plus an SP404mk2, is an infinitely more feature packed combo for less than half the price. The SP404mk2 acts as an controller + midi/audio interface, as well as serving as an SP404mk2. If you would offer me an OP XY for free, which I had to keep and use and not sell, or an iPad + SP404mk2 that I had to keep and use and not sell, I would take the iPad + SP404mk2 combo, all day - every day. Purely based on features.

OP XY is only marginally more portable. And another aspect to portability isn't just dimensions, it's the price. Who is really putting their $2,300 OP XY in their back pocket, and jamming on the bus ? I'd be amazed if more than 10% of OP's were having their portability exploited to the fullest - i.e by leaving the house and being used 'on the go', as opposed to in bed or in the lounge - assuming it even leaves the studio at all.

also, people really need to get over this narrative the these Teenage Engineering products are the price they have to be. TE are a well established, high profile company with a lot of brand recognition and credibility. Why are people so willing to believe that TE can't take advantage of economy of scale production realities ? They're too much of a 'little guy', boutique cottage industry company, for relevant manufacturing factories to work with them ? There simply aren't enough people interested in OP like devices, to exploit economy of scale ? Yet somehow every other company can make it work ? even the other 'little guy', boutique cottage industry type companies ?

This is by choice. The price tag is highfalutin, to make the marketing highfalutin, to make the industrial design highfalutin. They sell their products in the Museum of Modern Art ffs. Even when they made an affordable product with the pocket operators, they had to make a point of making it more or less a barebones pcb board - this is just marketing psychology fuckery imo.

I love the pocket operators by the way, I own and play with multpiple and I have an OG OP1 that I snagged for a 'steal' (about 700 euro) over at Thomann when they had some kind of glitch, or blowout, I think prior to it being rumored to being discontinued - and the price went back up again a day later. I think this was a period of time when some minor updates were being made to the hardware, so there may have been some confusion over at Thomann as to the future of the product. Anyways, I was quick and snagged one - but even 700-ish is an extravagance imo. And they just keep jumping the shark ever since. Just when you think you've seen how far they can push it, they come back a year later and push it some more - and still you'll find people actually convinced the prices are justified.

This is 'The Emporer's New Clothes' type of stuff.

I mean, just look at this - 300 euro for a frigging 'leather wrap':
https://teenage.engineering/store/op-1- ... olor=black

it is what it is, but people who think the price is justified in terms of bang-for-buck, or necessary due to production costs, etc, aren't just drinking the kool aid - they are mainlining it into their arteries.

I would much sooner entertain someone's arguments justifying the price if their arguments are based on it being an interactive piece of collectible art or some such coping strategy along those lines - at least such arguments are based in the ethereal, and not the real world - where the price is a joke.

TL/DR

I stated my opinion.

I’m not standing on a hill to defend it.

I don’t work for TE, so have no interest in convincing anybody of anything.

That’s their job. If you don’t agree then that’s on them.

I get everyone is triggered by the price. I’ve shit all over their field release for good reason, but don’t look to me to get that triggered aggression out.

Take it up with TE.

[ChiTown24]

You think they can justify the price, but refuse to explain how.

OK. That's reasonable.

[elxsound]

You think they can justify the price, but refuse to explain how.

OK. That's reasonable.

What would be the point? So you can argue more?

Clearly this means more to you than it does to me. A reasonable person knows their limits.

[Shabdahbriah]

You think they can justify the price, but refuse to explain how.

OK. That's reasonable.

What would be the point? So you can argue more?

Clearly this means more to you than it does to me. A reasonable person knows their limits.

Precisely. I do not, have not, and am reasonably certain I never will own a TE product, and I don't feel in any way compelled to explain or justify why.

[ChiTown24]

You think they can justify the price, but refuse to explain how.

OK. That's reasonable.

What would be the point? So you can argue more?

Clearly this means more to you than it does to me. A reasonable person knows their limits.

Precisely. I do not, have not, and am reasonably certain I never will own a TE product, and I don't feel in any way compelled to explain or justify why.

That's kool. But no one dragged elxsound out of bed and demanded they justify anything. They voluntarily joined the discussion to state that they believe the price is justified.

Sorry, but a reasonable person does not do this if they want to the pretend they're taking some kind of high road by refusing to answer the inevitable follow up question: how is the price justified ?

But OK. That's fine. They can't justify it. No one is shocked.

It would be nice though if they didn't try to pretend the reason they can't explain why they think the price is justified is because they're taking some kind of high road. Nice, but obviously - since this is the internet - not expected.

[elxsound]

You think they can justify the price, but refuse to explain how.

OK. That's reasonable.

What would be the point? So you can argue more?

Clearly this means more to you than it does to me. A reasonable person knows their limits.

Precisely. I do not, have not, and am reasonably certain I never will own a TE product, and I don't feel in any way compelled to explain or justify why.

That's kool. But no one dragged elxsound out of bed and demanded they justify anything. They voluntarily joined the discussion to state that they believe the price is justified.

Sorry, but a reasonable person does not do this if they want to the pretend they're taking some kind of high road by refusing to answer the inevitable follow up question: how is the price justified ?

But OK. That's fine. They can't justify it. No one is shocked.

It would be nice though if they didn't try to pretend the reason they can't explain why they think the price is justified is because they're taking some kind of high road. Nice, but obviously - since this is the internet - not expected.

You’re literally arguing that I should argue with you.

That’s reasonable?

I shared my opinion because I felt like it. I’ve said as much as I wanted to say about it because that’s all I’ll invest in a device I have no plans on buying. Not much more to it.