Talk me out of switching to Mac

[Cavey Arrgh]

Folks, longtime PC user here, I don't want to switch to Mac, but I want a new machine for my DAW/Audio work. I'm just hobbyist, but if Im going through all the trouble of a new PC, I want something that at least comes close to tripling my current PC CPU (i7 1165G7) multicore performance (I reference Geekbench v6).

A new M4 10 core plus Satechi dock will be around $600. Yes only 16GB RAM but that's all I have now and it's ok. I mostly use VI (u-he, Softube, Arturia, Gforce) and not much of sample based plugins, no Kontakt or orchestra work. I use Reason 12 as my DAW (I know, sorry) and MOTU M2 audio interface.

I searched high and low for PC w Ryzen 9 deals and can't find anything close. Say what you will about the Intel 13/14 gen scaremongering, but a local PC store I trust said stay away. This is a 5 location pc build company who sells alot of Intel, and much less AMD, so I think they are unbiased.

I prefer a stock factory build. I don't really want some custom build by a human, but even if I did, it is $1000 minimum to get a good AMD machine, and it will be GIANT form factor compared to Mac Mini. I do not trust Minisforum type PCs for several reasons (spyware rumors, reliability etc).

HOW PAINFUL WILL MACs be? Will new OS be forced on me and then none of my plugins will work? Will ilok (non-dongle) work?

Thanks for any info. This is not about trashing Macs, BTW. I have nothing against them per se, but have seen many plugins that don't support them, especially when Apple comes out with new chip, os, etc.

[Lerian]

You don't have to switch. You can use both, even using the same keyboard and mouse at the same time. That being said, if you will stay PC only, 7900x/7950x/9900x/9950x AMD CPUs are quite competent in the audio department.

Software-wise everything updated in the last 3-4 years will work just fine in the newer macs. Even most of the older ones will work, but you will have to get a rosetta version of your daw.

There are a few issues with macs, for windows users, and these are the first that come to my mind:
1. Way lower count of software available compared to windows. Usually audio/video software is well covered, but even here there are programs that won't work on the mac - Corel Draw is one of them, as other pro-printing software. Also, say goodbye to the little free programs that improves usability.
2. The first point comes with 2 side effects:
- you will have to pay for any small program that on windows you usually get for free. among others, you will need to pay to be able to write on windows ntfs drives (reading is free).
- online help is quite limited, as people don't tinker that much with their macs. If something is not working and you can't find a solution online.. tough luck, you're stuck.
3. Customizability needs a lot of work, can't be done easily.
4. You have to learn the mac way, which is the only way of doing things, and can be frustrating at the beginning.
5. If you get a laptop, you will love it but also hate that notch at the top of the screen. Its the most stupid thing ever invented.
6. Most programs on mac are meant to be stupid-proof, which means way lower options, and sometimes this is frustrating. Foobar2000 on mac is much dumber than foobar on windows for example. If you want to insert VST/Clap plugins to your music player, you are out of luck. You have no option for that on mac. And this is just an example, there are many others.

Later edit: you can use AU plugins on Audirvana, but that comes with a subscription (7 euros a month). It also include bit-perfect audio, which you won't find in other player, afaik. So you see, even the music player requires a subscription on mac

So it all depends on what you do with it. To me, a macbook pro is the only laptop that I will ever buy. Battery is the best, and the performance I get for that battery life is unmatched. Also the usability is great, portability, that keyboard and trackpad are the best I ever used. But for a desktop PC I will only use a PC. And stock android for phone, because iphones are too dumb for me

[uOpt]

It is true that getting a custom built PC is a lot of trouble, whether you do it yourself or pay somebody. A prebuilts by the big companies never live up to close inspection for me, starting with power supplies, unless you get a $20000 threadripper.

I hate Windows, that is reason enough for me to have Macs.

Most plugins are available for Windows and Mac.

[Scrubbing Monkeys]

Mac has great hardware but lost me when. I had to upgrade to Mavericks to be able to use certain software. But my macbook pro was not upgradible. Happens pc land to just not quite as often.

[sQeetz]

[...]

Don't listen to anything said there.
So much untruth doesn't even come out of Trumps mouth.
I switched from Windows to Mac when M1 came out and it actually was smooth sailing.
The default audio system is made for music making, while in in Windows you need drivers for everything. Everything in MacOS is made from the ground up to work nicely with any audio hardware you have

[Winstontaneous]

I tend to get a lot more done on Macs with audio. I am comfortable with Macs, Windows (I am admin of 150 HP W10 laptops at work) and Linux (for programming/server projects). IME, good luck with DPC latency/IRQ issues on even high-spec/expensive Windows machines, it's totally a crapshoot.

There's nothing like Core Audio in Windows/Linux in terms of something that a) actually "just works" at low latencies using either the internal audio I/O or peripherals without extra drivers b) lets you easily create aggregate audio devices c) easily capture loopback audio streams right out of the box.

I've used JACK/ALSA many times on Linux over the years and while it has its merits, "just working at low latency every time with whatever you plug in to the computer" is not one of them.

I'm not an Apple fanboi, and am defintiely not fond of the planned obsolescence model (my 2012 MacBook Pro is no longer supported and won't run recent Logic/Live/whatever) or epoxying devices shut/soldering in what should be user-replaceable RAM/drives - but TBH Dell/Lenovo and most other non-HP mfrs. of Windows machines do the same these days.

On the flip side, I'm glad that AudioMulch, VAZ Modular and other classic software written for Windows 2000/XP/7 works just fine on W10/11 even now.

[DrGonzo]

HOW PAINFUL WILL MACs be? Will new OS be forced on me and then none of my plugins will work? Will ilok (non-dongle) work?

It depends on how you go about it. The most important decision I ever made was to always stay at least one macOS iteration behind, maybe even two. So when you finally decide to update your Mac you will go in to a fully patched OS that is running optimally.

Changing platform will be a hassle initially, but in long-term avoiding update-hysteria solved so many of my issues.

/C

[Uncle E]

If you want to insert VST/Clap plugins to your music player, you are out of luck. You have no option for that on mac.

You can output the music player to Sonnox ListenHub and load the plugins there.

FWIW, when I switched to Mac, it was completely painless. I didn't even mean to switch, I was only intending to use it for work but ended up falling in love with how slick and easy it is.

[machinesworking]

Personally I never switched to PC because I don't want a complete abandoning of a few dozen partial songs, and a hundred finished ones. Yes you can set up cross platform yada yada, but in the end the least amount of things that take away from getting to writing music is best. Reason and U-He is a solid cross platform choice, but I still don't trust that everything will work. So if you do switch to Mac realize that you're freezing everything you've done up until now, and will need to switch all your hardware over every time you want to work on something old.

[PAK]

[...]

Don't listen to anything said there.

Indeed!

BTW If NTFS write support is needed there’s Mounty (https://mounty.app ), as well as macFUSE ( https://osxfuse.github.io/). Both free. Most external drives are default formatted to exFAT anyway, which is the easiest way to move drives between Mac and Windows.

[PAK]

HOW PAINFUL WILL MACs be? Will new OS be forced on me and then none of my plugins will work? Will ilok (non-dongle) work?

Apple allow you to decide when you update. The worst they do is put an indicator, on your system settings icon, that an update is available. No forced ads, you choose when to update. Though issues are rare, if you’re mega concerned, wait for the 2nd or 3rd update to the new OS before installing. Machine based iLok works on Macs the same as Windows (deactivate your iLok licenses on Windows first if you're moving machines!)

There’s more that’s similar than different, especially if you’re using the same music software on each..

[Jac459]

Folks, longtime PC user here, I don't want to switch to Mac, but I want a new machine for my DAW/Audio work. I'm just hobbyist, but if Im going through all the trouble of a new PC, I want something that at least comes close to tripling my current PC CPU (i7 1165G7) multicore performance (I reference Geekbench v6).

A new M4 10 core plus Satechi dock will be around $600. Yes only 16GB RAM but that's all I have now and it's ok. I mostly use VI (u-he, Softube, Arturia, Gforce) and not much of sample based plugins, no Kontakt or orchestra work. I use Reason 12 as my DAW (I know, sorry) and MOTU M2 audio interface.

I searched high and low for PC w Ryzen 9 deals and can't find anything close. Say what you will about the Intel 13/14 gen scaremongering, but a local PC store I trust said stay away. This is a 5 location pc build company who sells alot of Intel, and much less AMD, so I think they are unbiased.

I prefer a stock factory build. I don't really want some custom build by a human, but even if I did, it is $1000 minimum to get a good AMD machine, and it will be GIANT form factor compared to Mac Mini. I do not trust Minisforum type PCs for several reasons (spyware rumors, reliability etc).

HOW PAINFUL WILL MACs be? Will new OS be forced on me and then none of my plugins will work? Will ilok (non-dongle) work?

Thanks for any info. This is not about trashing Macs, BTW. I have nothing against them per se, but have seen many plugins that don't support them, especially when Apple comes out with new chip, os, etc.

I switched to Mac 3 years ago and will probably switch back to PC for my next buy if snapdragon CPUs are getting better.

From a usage standpoint, it is a draw between MacOS and Windows. Both are good and not awesome.
If you do other stuffs with your computer like connecting to network drives, copying large amount of data over network and all, I found MacOS to be somewhat unreliable. And also the windows File Explorer is miles ahead of MacOS "finder".
On the side of MacOS, I had less problems with plugins dpi/screen size adjustment (less, not none).
I didn't had any issue with macOS update on the 3 years I used it but it may happen.
In terms of compatibility of installations, I know MacOS is better for Bitwig, where installing a new version is just overwriting the previous one, you don't need to uninstall.
Also MacOS has some Moog plugins that Windows doesn't (and I know Windows also has a few plugins Mac doesn't have), but overall it is marginal.

As a conclusion, overall I slightly prefer Windows because of Android installation and a vastly better file explorer. For the rest it is kind of similar.
What I really love with MacOS is that it runs on Apple Silicon and Apple Silicon right now is awesome. The fact that it consumes much much less energy than an AMD or an Intel, make it less hot, less noisy, and overall... better.

[Lerian]

[...]

Don't listen to anything said there.
So much untruth doesn't even come out of Trumps mouth.

Fanboy BS. Everything I said there IS actually true.

I am both a mac/windows user for about 14 years already. I had both intel and m1 mac. I know exactly what I'm talking about. If you want to write native os, fast and reliable on NTFS drives you need to buy the Paragon NTFS driver ($60 for pro use). Other apps are nice toys to have but not ready to use in a professional environment. And the same goes for A LOT of software that on windows is just free/open source and way more complex in what it offers.

Yes, you recently have some options to insert plugins to your players. That doesn't change anything from what I already said. And don't even get me started on the variety of software available on windows, that simply doesn't exist on mac. How would you know the difference if you've left the windows ecosystem a long time ago? Just brag about the iphone integration and leave it at that.

Apple fanboys would say anything, as they only use apple and need to justify their choice. And windows is not the hell that apple users describe it to be. Maybe to them, it is. Maybe they have troubles operating a coffee machine too. But things are more nuanced, as they always are.

[Jac459]

[...]

Don't listen to anything said there.
So much untruth doesn't even come out of Trumps mouth.
I switched from Windows to Mac when M1 came out and it actually was smooth sailing.
The default audio system is made for music making, while in in Windows you need drivers for everything. Everything in MacOS is made from the ground up to work nicely with any audio hardware you have

Actually Lerian's post is very near my own experience (not a windows or Mac fanboy here), I wonder where you disagree. I had the same issue he describes to access my Digital Audio Player, my network files and all. And yes, I have a notch looking at me now as I am typing and I still find it incredibly stupid... On the other hand, I also agree with him/her that Apple laptops are the best now...

[Jac459]

[...]

Don't listen to anything said there.
So much untruth doesn't even come out of Trumps mouth.

Fanboy BS. Everything I said there IS actually true.

I am both a mac/windows user for about 14 years already. I had both intel and m1 mac. I know exactly what I'm talking about. If you want to write native os, fast and reliable on NTFS drives you need to buy the Paragon NTFS driver ($60 for pro use). Other apps are nice toys to have but not ready to use in a professional environment. And the same goes for A LOT of software that on windows is just free/open source and way more complex in what it offers.

Yes, you recently have some options to insert plugins to your players. That doesn't change anything from what I already said. And don't even get me started on the variety of software available on windows, that simply doesn't exist on mac. How would you know the difference if you've left the windows ecosystem a long time ago? Just brag about the iphone integration and leave it at that.

Apple fanboys would say anything, as they only use apple and need to justify their choice. And windows is not the hell that apple users describe it to be. Maybe to them, it is. Maybe they have troubles operating a coffee machine too. But things are more nuanced, as they always are.

I don't want to enter the fanboy debate but I agree with your experience with NTFS or even Samba implementation. I am unable to copy a large number of files from my MacBook Pro to my network drive with the copy failing at one point of time.
It works perfectly, 100% of the time from my phone (android).