Talk me out of switching to Mac

[BONES]

Hopefully we both understand it enough to know it probably isn’t best placed in any large corporations

The difference here is that Microsoft learned their lesson with Vista, because their users wouldn't put up with them doing what was easiest for them.

An OS, for most, is just a way to run apps.

If that's true, why wouldn't you choose the OS that supports the greatest number of applications?

It’s doing its job best when it’s not noticed.

Windows wins that by a mile, too. The simplest example being how much of your screen macOS takes up compared to Windows. Macs have a bar across the top of the screen and the dock takes up a significant amount of space at the bottom of the screen as well. Windows just has the Taskbar across the bottom. It probably takes up less than half the space.

Not a fan of touch laptops here (Arm aches, mouse more precise.. ).

The thing is, it's not an either/or situation. e.g. a touchscreen makes using a trackpad a lot less painful. And touchscreens allow engineers to design all kinds of really useful form factors that give you all the functionality of a laptop when you need it, or a tablet when the situation calls for that. Plus stuff like this -

This is not the model Microsoft uses to make money from Windows consumers. That’s why you don’t get to turn off the telemetry

Except of course you get to turn off the telemetry. It's an option that is clearly spelled out during set-up, the first time you turn on your new PC. It's just that there is absolutely no reason to.

Great. I’m sure you’ll also welcome their CoPilot AI. Be sure to let it take screenshots of your machine every few seconds.

I regularly interact with Co-Pilot but unless I give it permission to, it doesn't remember anything from one interaction to the next. Of course, I only found that out by asking, it doesn't store anything by default. It certainly doesn't take screenshots, why would it?

Unlike Mac users, we don't have to fear updates

Hmm. It appears you may use Google rather selectively? Who knew [/quote]
I don't use Google at all. Microsoft at least pay me for the data I allow them to collect. Google can go f**k itself.

Another issue with the current crop of ARM Macs is that you can't be sure that older software works, whereas Windows has traditionally been exceptionally good at backwards compatibility.. but even that has changed with Windows 11.

No, it hasn't. I've had Win11 on my last 5 PCs and never had even the tiniest issue. Anything made for Win7 or above installs and runs perfectly. And we're talking literally hundreds of installations on each of them. I've even run a few XP-era installers (old versions of Orion) and they've worked as expected, too.

The Mac Mini M4 is by far the best bang for the buck currently. It's a similar situation as with the Mac Mini M1. The amount of processing power you get for just 700€ (about the price it costs here in Finland) is amazing!

+keyboard+mouse+monitor. And 700 Euros is way more than I paid for my new PC, which almost never uses more than about half the available processing power when I'm doing music.

[lfm]

Not a fan of touch laptops here (Arm aches, mouse more precise.. ).

Just plug in an usb mouse and use both, or turn off touch pad and use that space to nicely rest your hands there.

The one producing movement to windows will be taken. No settings must change.

As for an internet computer laptop with touchpad works fine, and zoom in/out gestures are nice, as are two finger scroll all directions as you move them.

[PAK]

The difference here is that Microsoft learned their lesson with Vista, because their users wouldn't put up with them doing what was easiest for them.

Seems you might be missing (just a little) history, between then and now, regarding their actions towards users.

If that's true, why wouldn't you choose the OS that supports the greatest number of applications?

I use Cubase. It’s been running better on the Mac side lately. Go with what runs your software best.

Macs have a bar across the top of the screen and the dock takes up a significant amount of space at the bottom of the screen as well.

Settings / Control Centre “Automatically hide and show Menu bar”. Settings / Desktop and Dock “Automatically hide and show the dock.” There’s a bunch of other options too. If you’re not aware of basics, like this, it’s possible you’re unaware of other things about the OS?.. Just saying..

Except of course you get to turn off the telemetry.

D’oh. C’mon Bones. I’ll forgive your lack of knowledge on Mac OS. But this isn’t correct. You get to dial back the amount of reporting, but you can’t turn it off. Certain license types (aimed at business) can.

It certainly doesn't take screenshots, why would it?

That’s a question for Microsoft. Their idea is that their AI can process the text and objects in those screenshots, allowing it to be fully aware of every single thing you did on your computer. You didn’t see all the news stories about it? (They intended to ship with it on, by default, for Windows on ARM and didn’t pay a whole lot of attention to how securely they stored the screenshots. Oops )

Google can go f**k itself.

Something we can both agree on

Just plug in an usb mouse and use both, or turn off touch pad and use that space to nicely rest your hands there.

It's really the keyboard that's in the way. But I know some people like touch on laptops and, if you do, it's one thing which goes against Apple's hardware for now..

[vstdls]

I have a 9 year old 27" iMac, "top of the line" $$$$ model. About to become a 20 lb paperweight. Too much of a hassle to retrofit hardware to update (even just the SSD), too much of a hassle to install Windows or Linux on it. Going rate on Ebay is $150. Too much of a hassle to ship.

I have a 9 year old Windows machine that couldn't be upgraded to Windows 11. It died 6 months ago. My 12+ year old Mac Mini is still going strong and now serves as my Windows and Linux computer. I upgraded it to 16gb RAM about 8 years ago, and replaced the hard drive with an SSD when it took over Windows/Linux duties. It also can't be upgraded to Windows 11.

Anything can take Windows 11. Anyone that believes otherwise.....good for them?

But you're right Jamcat, an old Mac is only useful when it's been converted to a PC.

Everything BONES said is true.

Windows 11 requires a TPM2.0 module, so Windows 11 won't install on anything older than 2017. And I'm not going to install any hacks or cracks to get around MicroSoft's limitations, even if they are arbitrary.

But here's a new one: yesterday for no apparent reason Windows 10 started telling me it wasn't activated. I was able to eventually get to a screen that let me fix it, and lo and behold, it discovered my digital license. But why did it dump it in the first place? Yet another buggy Windows update to blame?

Microsoft allows you to build your own installer to bypass TPM, Microsoft Account, or any other "consumer" system requirements for a Win11 installation. These are not "hacks or cracks"

I hope that helps you out!

[Scotty]

I am very interested in a solution. I have two X99 systems here with no TPM modules. The only thing I have read is that we can continue to use Windows 10 on these boxes until 2025 and then get security updates for another 3 years by paying some cash I think $30 per year.

Can you point to an article that explains the process you describe? I can do my own reading and grunt work. I just need a pointer. Much appreciated

Microsoft allows you to build your own installer to bypass TPM, Microsoft Account, or any other "consumer" system requirements for a Win11 installation. These are not "hacks or cracks"

I hope that helps you out!

[PAK]

I am very interested in a solution.
Can you point to an article that explains the process you describe? I can do my own reading and grunt work. I just need a pointer

https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/

A (very) large note of caution. These methods generate an XML file, which the Windows installer will use to configure the install. Since these are "unsupported" configurations, the Windows Update installers won’t take them into account. The chances of WU breaking the whole installation, at some point, are relatively high..

So it's advisable to either not use Windows update, or to regularly back up your whole OS (with a way to restore) before you do.

[jamcat]

Or just dump Windows.

$30 a year to get security updates?
Microsoft really is a garbage company.

[machinesworking]

Or just dump Windows.

$30 a year to get security updates?
Microsoft really is a garbage company.

To be fair I think the $99 a year developer fee is piss poor move from Apple. You're generally going to have Windows developers who have to learn Mac OS specific code, who are also charged to even develop for Mac OS, it's just about one of the dumbest things Apple has done.

I don't use Google at all. Microsoft at least pay me for the data I allow them to collect. Google can go f**k itself.

You don't use an Android then?

[jamcat]

Doesn’t BONES use a Windows phone?

[Scotty]

I use both Macs and PC in my studio. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. Let's be grown-ups.

Or just dump Windows.

$30 a year to get security updates?
Microsoft really is a garbage company.

[machinesworking]

I use both Macs and PC in my studio. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. Let's be grown-ups.

Lol good luck with that, people are insane around this, but it's not the only thing.
I bought my first Fender Telecaster and my other Gibson using friends were shocked. It's a guitar FFS?
Just chatting with a friend an hour ago about Western Digital VS Seagate, that got, wild...

[Scotty]

Ok I'll do more reading on the topic. I have a spare Machinist X99 board here in a box and I'll give it a shot on a new build. I've got nothing to lose but some time and I always learn something even if things don't work out. If it does work out and seems viable for the long term, I might migrate my X99 studio machines. These were budget builds based on x5 2690 v4 XEONS on Chinese motherboards (dual socket). I think I can go a long way on Windows 10 yet though and $30 bucks year for a few more years is reasonable in my view.

The amount of pre TPM computer hardware that is about to get mothballed globally is staggering unless people find a solution for Windows 11 install, run Linux or live with Windows 10 beyond the extended support phase with the inherent risks associated with the platform while on line.

I am very interested in a solution.
Can you point to an article that explains the process you describe? I can do my own reading and grunt work. I just need a pointer

https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/

A (very) large note of caution. These methods generate an XML file, which the Windows installer will use to configure the install. Since these are "unsupported" configurations, the Windows Update installers won’t take them into account. The chances of WU breaking the whole installation, at some point, are relatively high..

So it's advisable to either not use Windows update, or to regularly back up your whole OS (with a way to restore) before you do.

[Uncle E]

I bought my first Fender Telecaster and my other Gibson using friends were shocked. It's a guitar FFS?

Fender is the Microsoft of guitars.

[machinesworking]

I bought my first Fender Telecaster and my other Gibson using friends were shocked. It's a guitar FFS?

Fender is the Microsoft of guitars.

Yeah well Gibson is a tyrannical company with an over bloated reputation for being quality, they're expensive, and the neck is glued on, I can get a new neck for the Tele if I want so it's better!

[BONES]

Seems you might be missing (just a little) history, between then and now, regarding their actions towards users.

Obviously not or you'd have had some examples to provide. No company has screwed me over more than Microsoft - from progressively making my favourite mouse worse and worse, to killing off Zune and Windows Phone and dumbing down the Start menu after getting it absolutely perfect - but the one thing they've never done is force me to install updates to any of my products because of things they f**ked over inside Windows. Yes, you can find hundreds of complaints about things that people have had problems with after an update but the reality is that even if you can dig up a million complaints, that only represents 0.25% of Windows 11 users. It's the equivalent of seeing a product on Amazon with 10,000 4 or 5 star reviews and deciding not to buy it because there are two or three bad ones.

I use Cubase. It’s been running better on the Mac side lately. Go with what runs your software best.

Yeah, Cubase was never ultra-reliable for me but my bandmate says it has improved greatly in recent versions. Is the difference as stark as it seems to be with Studio One?

Settings / Control Centre “Automatically hide and show Menu bar”. Settings / Desktop and Dock “Automatically hide and show the dock.”

Have you ever tried to work like that? It's a nightmare. If you want to access something like the transport controls in Studio One, for example, the Dock will pop up and get in your way. I tried it and it was an order of magnitude more annoying than just accepting that you can't use the whole screen. To be fair, Win11 does that automatically when I don't have a keyboard or mouse attached to my computer. I think I can tell it not to switch to tablet mode but that would also be far more annoying. Don't forget, too, that it's only relatively recently that macOS even allows you to maximise a window to fill your screen.

If you’re not aware of basics, like this, it’s possible you’re unaware of other things about the OS?.. Just saying..

If I was that stupid, I'd be a Mac user but the reality is that I'm the guy that used to have to show life-long Mac users how to do that stuff.

You get to dial back the amount of reporting, but you can’t turn it off.

You're missing my point, which is that there is no reason to switch it off, it is to your benefit to keep it all switched on. Microsoft collects billions of keystrokes every day and the data they get from that informs how Windows develops. You can contribute to that, in the hope it gets better for you, or you can leave it to a billion f**king morons to do it and put up without however that goes. The Win11 Start menu is proof enough that you can't leave it to the billion morons.

... Microsoft. Their idea is that their AI can process the text and objects in those screenshots, allowing it to be fully aware of every single thing you did on your computer.

Cool! Think of it like receiving a birthday gift - who is going to best know what you want, a stranger or your best friend? The more they know about how you use their products, the better they know how to improve them FOR YOU. Of course, in my case I see no benefit in anything an AI in my computer might be able to do for me so it's not something I'd be worrying about.

You didn’t see all the news stories about it? (They intended to ship with it on, by default, for Windows on ARM and didn’t pay a whole lot of attention to how securely they stored the screenshots. Oops )

As I said, I'm a Windows Insider and there has been nothing like that on any Windows beta I've been running. Don't believe what you read in the papers. Or a good reason to ignore ARM-based systems. Either way, nothing I care about. Seriously, why would you care how securely the screenshots were stored? There'd be billions of them within days with no way of identifying them, unless you put your log-in details and home address on your desktop wallpaper. Honestly, I'd feel really sorry for anyone who has to trawl through screenshots of my computer looking for something useful. Even an AI would get bored.

As for an internet computer laptop with touchpad works fine, and zoom in/out gestures are nice, as are two finger scroll all directions as you move them.

That's it in a nutshell - everything you love about your laptop and everything you love about your iPad in a single device. And that's clearly where Apple are heading. I mean, when was the last time you saw a marketing photo of an iPad that wasn't sat in Apple's eye-wateringly expensive keyboard stand thingie? If you want to get yourself a 13" iPad Pro with a stylus and keyboard, you're up for Au$4,047 and all you get is a miserable 7 days of Apple Care (which is actually illegal in Australia but Apple don't give a f**k). OTOH, I paid just Au$2300 for my Asus ROG Flow Z13, which shipped with a keyboard cover and stylus and it came with a full 12 month warranty. But the thing is, even after you spend your four f**king grand, you can't run Studio One on it, so it's still just a useless f**king toy to keep your kids quiet on road trips. Honestly, I have never understood the appeal of iPads (or Android tablets) - they have all the disadvantages of a laptop and a smartphone, with none of the benefits of either. i.e. Too big to stick in your pocket, so you still need to carry a bag to put it in, and it can't run the software you use every day on your computer. Of course, these days they are more than capable of running that software but Apple won't let you because they can make more money by keeping the OSes separate. Another reason Apple can go f**k themselves.

You don't use an Android then?

To send/receive phone calls and text messages, as well as checking the weather. Oh, and occasionally looking something up on Wikipedia. I do have my work email set up, as we use Gmail at the office, but if they don't care how secure that is, neither do I. I've got the GPS and Wi-Fi switched off, to preserve battery life, so it can only track me via cell towers, which Google hopefully doesn't have its grubby little hands in.

$30 a year to get security updates?
Microsoft really is a garbage company.

Better than what Apple does, which is to stop giving you any at all. Another example of how hard it is for Mac users to get their heads around the concept of "choice" and being given "options" by your software vendor.