Talk me out of switching to Mac

[lfm]

$30 a year to get security updates?

...and some of us are just looking for ways to not get these updates.....they became mandatory in windows 10.....



I used XP until 2020, 6 years after updates were dropped.

I will do that with my currrent laptop for internet I write this on too.

When ever people are trying to scare you into a certain behavior, it makes at least me suspicious.
- just don't download everything that says "free"
- and you are fine

[Uncle E]

Yeah well Gibson is a tyrannical company with an over bloated reputation for being quality, they're expensive

So you’re saying Gibson is the Apple of guitars?

[Liero]

(To me) the biggest reason to NOT use macOS is that if you know what you're doing and want to have an OS that *you* are the master of, Apple just gets in the way of that in really big way with their security features that re-enable themselves with updates and are hard to remove.

With Microsoft you can actually deep tweak Windows to a much, much higher degree with an admin account. The important thing that windows users seem to not know about is the GROUP POLICY EDITOR (gpedit.msc from the run command prompt) which is the most important tool you actually need to change the OS to what you want.

[jamcat]

(To me) the biggest reason to NOT use macOS is that if you know what you're doing and want to have an OS that *you* are the master of, Apple just gets in the way of that in really big way with their security features that re-enable themselves with updates and are hard to remove.

OK, I know where this is going...

With Microsoft you can actually deep tweak Windows

Wait, what? I totally thought you were going to say Linux!

(And BTW, you can actually tweak Macs to a Linux-like level using sudo, since it is a BSD-based, "UNIX-like" OS and essentially the same as Linux under the hood... "if you know what you're doing")

It's just that no one does, because (unlike Windows and Linux) no one needs to.

[Liero]

(And BTW, you can actually tweak Macs to a Linux-like level using sudo, since it is a BSD-based, "UNIX-like" OS and essentially the same as Linux under the hood... "if you know what you're doing")

It's just that no one does, because (unlike Windows and Linux) no one needs to.

I lol'd hard at this because it so clearly betrays that you're not actually a modern macOS user. Your points about sudo and UNIX-likeness enabling customizability might have been true a decade ago before gatekeeper, SIP and a myriad of other security features locked down the OS. Sure, you can painstakingly start disabling those in recovery mode etc., and watch an OS update bring them all right back.

You can't even permantently (without requiring the user to repeat the process) remove the Chess app on macOS for chrissakes. You are much more free to remove features and parts of the operating system in Windows.

[jamcat]

I’ve made some policy changes in terminal, and they’ve been retained through every macOS update, big and small.

I have a MacBook Pro with Apple Silicon and the latest Sequoia, and an old Mac mini that topped off at Catalina.

But like I said, there is no need to make major tweaks to macOS. It already comes optimized.

[vstdls]

Ok I'll do more reading on the topic. I have a spare Machinist X99 board here in a box and I'll give it a shot on a new build. I've got nothing to lose but some time and I always learn something even if things don't work out. If it does work out and seems viable for the long term, I might migrate my X99 studio machines. These were budget builds based on x5 2690 v4 XEONS on Chinese motherboards (dual socket). I think I can go a long way on Windows 10 yet though and $30 bucks year for a few more years is reasonable in my view.

The amount of pre TPM computer hardware that is about to get mothballed globally is staggering unless people find a solution for Windows 11 install, run Linux or live with Windows 10 beyond the extended support phase with the inherent risks associated with the platform while on line.

I am very interested in a solution.
Can you point to an article that explains the process you describe? I can do my own reading and grunt work. I just need a pointer

https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/

A (very) large note of caution. These methods generate an XML file, which the Windows installer will use to configure the install. Since these are "unsupported" configurations, the Windows Update installers won’t take them into account. The chances of WU breaking the whole installation, at some point, are relatively high..

So it's advisable to either not use Windows update, or to regularly back up your whole OS (with a way to restore) before you do.

Newer editions of Rufus even do it for you, and allow you to build the installer while making an install USB thumb - I've not had any problem in The past year regarding WU etc in the past year or so on a 4th Gen and 6th Gen intel.

[jamcat]

But can you do that on a Bootcamp install?

[PAK]

Yeah, Obviously not or you'd have had some examples to provide. No company has screwed me over more than Microsoft

Bit of a contradiction there, as you appear to have your own examples But, since you asked.. one example was Microsoft forced the migration of a portion of Windows 7/8 users, to Windows 10, back in 2015. I had personal experience of this. There was no “accident”. No “oh, I opted in and didn’t know”. They just forced a bunch of installs on people - and in enough numbers that news articles were written about it at the time.

If I wasn’t using audio apps I’d have gone to Linux at that point. Instead there was the Hackintosh. What I found there surprised me. Despite a bunch of hacked drivers stuff like MIDI jitter, and USB handling, were better than Windows 7 / 10 using the same hardware. I also prefer things like how apps are more self-contained on Mac OS, VS a central database rats nest of non-obvious inter-dependent links (aka the registry), plus much less need for additional support libraries etc..

(.. )
but the one thing they've never done is force me to install updates to any of my products

They crossed that line here. Plus consumers are only allowed to “defer” nowadays, remember. So you’re taking that update. The LTSC version of Windows (which allows better control) tends to be expensive, for individuals, if you want a genuine license.

Yeah, Cubase was never ultra-reliable for me but my bandmate says it has improved greatly in recent versions. Is the difference as stark as it seems to be with Studio One?

I don’t use Studio One to compare. Around Cubase 7.5 Steinberg tried to copy the Mac’s Menu bar to make the experience “more consistent across platforms”. They finally removed it recently, and let Windows be Windows, because it was causing issues. Since version 12 Cubase doesn’t appear to work well on some older PC configs. They’ve made improvements with handling newer processors though. But I’d still say the odds are you’ll have a better experience with Apple Silicon. They're working, with Microsoft, to port to ARM. ASIO support will also be baked in to Windows on ARM, for all audio devices, soon.

If you want to access something like the transport controls in Studio One, for example, the Dock will pop up and get in your way.

Buy a Presonus Faderport. It’ll make that a non-issue and improve your experience of Studio One. You can right click the little divider lines, on the dock bar, and align left or right from there too, plus use the divider bars to “zoom” dock size with mouse / trackpad scroll. I’d say it’s no more annoying than Windows in these regards, and the top Menu Bar defaults to the foreground app, so the hide setting tends to work quite well there.

You're missing my point, which is that there is no reason to switch it off

And you’re missing mine. It’s not about what you feel. It’s about whether users have the choice. Not only does Microsoft not allow a choice, they actively fight users who attempt to circumvent telemetry. EG There was a simple registry tweak, to the first release of Windows 10, which allowed you to turn telemetry off. How did Microsoft respond? They invalidated the installations of those who changed that registry key, because your license type does not support that. Nice!

I think many don’t like the approach of Microsoft lately, and audio is a category where Mac OS is viable as an alternative. Companies, like Valve, are also making it look like PC gaming can be viable elsewhere too. Choice is good

[Liero]

I’ve made some policy changes in terminal, and they’ve been retained through every macOS update, big and small.

But like I said, there is no need to make major tweaks to macOS. It already comes optimized.

Your original point was that you can tweak macOS to "a Linux-like level". That is just lying or not knowing how hackable linux distros actually are. macOS is full of security features that stop any deeper tweaks, and in case you actually tamper with these security features, OS updates *will* turn those features back and possibly revert your changes.

The fact that you don't need to do these kinds of tweaks is beside my original point, which was that Windows is more tweakable than macOS.

I'm not a mac hater by any means and use it daily for work. It has its upsides, but it's a walled garden where everything "just works" as long as you agree to do it the Apple way. Windows is far from perfect (and 11 is much worse than 10) but it's adaptive.

[uOpt]

Well, Linux is open source. You can hack it up all the way. Apple publishes some open source components, but the kernel is not amount it.

But as somebody who hacks up computers for a living I'm gonna agree that Mac don't present much of a need for it.

[machinesworking]

Honestly if I was just starting out I would probably go with Linux now. There's Reaper, Renoise, and Bitwig among others for DAWs, and enough solid plugins to get things done. The limited playing field forces you out of GAS and IMO the fact that a developer would do Linux on top of Mac OS and Windows versions means in my mind that the developer is top notch.

The downside is obvious though, I have a fanless M1 Air and an 24 core M2 Studio that makes near zero noise, I literally never hear it. It will probably be at least another 5 years before these types of quite Arm chips are available for Linux DAWs.

[jamcat]

these types of quite Arm chips are available for Linux DAWs.

https://asahilinux.org

[BONES]

one example was Microsoft forced the migration of a portion of Windows 7/8 users, to Windows 10, back in 2015. I had personal experience of this. There was no “accident”. No “oh, I opted in and didn’t know”. They just forced a bunch of installs on people - and in enough numbers that news articles were written about it at the time.

A decade ago. And honestly, what kind of complete f**king idiot would keep using Windows 7 when they could be using Windows 10, which used one-third less system resources and wasn't just a cosmetic makeover of the worst version of Windows they had ever rolled out (Vista)? Microsoft was doing you a HUGE favour.

I also prefer things like how apps are more self-contained on Mac OS

If only that prevented them from taking down the system when they crashed.

a central database rats nest of non-obvious inter-dependent links (aka the registry), plus much less need for additional support libraries etc.

Seriously? The registry is there when you need it but it's got to be 20 years or more since I looked at it. And what's the macOS alternative when you want to change some behaviour that you're not happy with? It's nothing, you have no options, no control. It's Apple's way or the highway. How is that an improvement?

but the one thing they've never done is force me to install updates to any of my products

Microsoft has never done that to me, either, but some people obviously need help and Microsoft are happy to save you from yourself where necessary.

[EnGee]

I like and have both a PC/Windows 11 and an M1 mini Mac. Both OSes have their advantages and disadvantages. Anyway, if must choose only one of them, it would be the PC/Windows for practical reasons.