Talk me out of switching to Mac

[donkey tugger]

I'll say one thing for Apple - their processer names are a damn sight easier to work out than the jibber-jabber in PC world.

Bastard Intel now changed it all again haven't they. 'Core Ultra drdr£R%66gfd53!!' blah, blah. What??

[PAK]

If only that prevented them from taking down the system when they crashed.

There are actual technical reasons for why it’s much harder to have Mac OS “take down the system”..

Mac OS won’t allow anything to run in kernel space without a rigmarole. It’s likely the next version, of Mac OS, won’t even allow drivers to run in kernel space. RME’s DriverKit drivers, which move them into user space, are showing no performance loss. Literally everything, which isn’t Mac OS, soon won’t be able to run in kernel space. There are benefits from being much more locked down, and system stability can be one of them. This is a lot more difficult, for Windows to do, because of its more open nature, and the things it has to support.

And what's the macOS alternative when you want to change some behaviour that you're not happy with? It's nothing, you have no options

That’s a bit of a defeatist attitude there Bones There’s usually multiple ways to do various things, whether it’s through keyboard shortcuts, plist edits, command line stuff, scripting and Automator, 3rd party utils, and you can even run many Windows utils, via Crossover, from the dock - if you really, really, want to.

Seriously? The registry is there when you need it but it's got to be 20 years or more since I looked at it.

Back before Windows 95, Redmond decided it was a good idea to have the OS share resources to save drive space. It resulted in both the registry and dll sharing (Remember “dll hell”? ). Whilst Microsoft, like Apple, locks down its key OS files these days, Windows still lives with some impacts from those decisions..

EG Settings usually get stored in a maze of registry keys. Apps, which make a lot of usage of the registry, are near impossible to cleanly remove. It can also be an issue if a registry key, or incorrect link, is causing a problem. Mac OS tends to be more straight-forward. Delete the app, delete its plist file. Where there’s other junk it’s mostly a case of searching for the app name or company, and sending those files to the trash. Although it takes it much too far, to say Mac OS doesn’t need an uninstaller (it does), the way things are structured doesn’t have quite the same potential for issues.

Microsoft are happy to save you from yourself where necessary.

In your case? I’m not so sure Bones

[machinesworking]

these types of quite Arm chips are available for Linux DAWs.

https://asahilinux.org

That's pretty cool, once they get Thunderbolt/USB4 up and running it might be fun to run Reaper or Bitwig in Linux in it and see if there's some CPU gain etc. I guess it depends on how they access efficiency cores.

[uOpt]

these types of quite Arm chips are available for Linux DAWs.

https://asahilinux.org

That's pretty cool, once they get Thunderbolt/USB4 up and running it might be fun to run Reaper or Bitwig in Linux in it and see if there's some CPU gain etc. I guess it depends on how they access efficiency cores.

I was about to say that we have to wait for an ARM version for Linux Reaper. But a quick check reveals that they have several. And Windows Arm, too. Respect.

[machinesworking]

I was about to say that we have to wait for an ARM version for Linux Reaper. But a quick check reveals that they have several. And Windows Arm, too. Respect.

Yep, and then Bitwig shouldn't be far behind if they are behind. Might be some oddities with the Mac hardware version but I doubt it. I just wish Reaper wasn't such an ugly beast, no skin hides it's Win95 core.

[Patrice Brousseau]

I have a 9 year old 27" iMac, "top of the line" $$$$ model. About to become a 20 lb paperweight. Too much of a hassle to retrofit hardware to update (even just the SSD), too much of a hassle to install Windows or Linux on it. Going rate on Ebay is $150. Too much of a hassle to ship.

Eventually, in this decade, Apple will render your new computer basically useless. This doesn't happen with PCs, unless a fire is involved.

I work with the two platforms, on real Macs (two MBP’s Intel, one MacMini 2018) and on my « studio » Hackintosh, i9 9900K still on Mojave.

I prefer the MacOS environment for DAW (not for a living, I am a music teacher) but the one-year cycle MacOS update isn’t fun. It’s why I am still on Mojave. This computer is « frozen in time », no more MacOS updates!

On my « office » Intel MacMini, I have all the luxury to test drive a new Sequoia install (probably the last MacOS supporting Intel… unless I am wrong ). A bit buggy for now, at least on my Intel Mac… I can easily get back to the internal SSD with Ventura (rock solid).

Backward compatibility is one of Microsoft strengths as some of my old Windows software still works in Windows 10 and 11.

My old MacBookPro early 2011 is frozen on Sierra, the MBP 2015 and the Hackintosh, as already said, on Mojave.

I keep three of my computers dual boot Mac and Windows: the Hackintosh, obviously, the MacMini and the old MBP early 2011.

At the school where I work, only Dell laptops and it’s ok for me, works well. One of my younger colleagues said to me: all Windows machines are crap, Mac’s are better, yada, yada… Yeah son! It’s only a tool and you can make music on MacOS, Windows or even, Linux. I come from the era when the music computers were Yamaha CX5M’s or Atari 1040 so anything 10-15 years old is miles ahead in computing power.

To conclude, if you are naturally computer inclined, you will adapt easily to one way or the other.

[Patrice Brousseau]

Forgot: I am not really fond of the « IOs » tangent that Apple took with their latest Os’ses! Windows 11 is, IMHO, a good OS in this regard.

Also, the infamous myth that Mac machines will last for decades… is true… but I still have a Dell 2014 tower and my Windows/Hack build of 2014 still running strong so, there’s that!

My son is now using my « old » office Win/Hack computer, a Dell XPS 8930 BTW!

[Patrice Brousseau]

A question though, how is the latency on Macs when not using an external audio interface? I imagine it's better than on a PC? I won't be using my external audio interface in this case, I will hook up the Mac Mini to my TV instead of to my monitor on my desk.

If you want to record music or play with VST’s/VSTi’s, it’s like using the onboard audio of any PC. To play movies, listen to music or work on a mix (without the need for low RTL), it’ll be fine.

[Patrice Brousseau]

vs. small latency:
test a TB3 Audio interface on any apple silicon mac.
Thats the fastest. Respectivly is it way more hassle to get to that same performance on a windows system from what i gather.

You do know that RME runs equally, if not better than any TB3 audio interface?

https://gearspace.com/board/music-compu ... -base.html


For the record, I own two Presonus Quantum’s (a plain TB2 first version and a TB3 2626) interfaces and they can be used on Windows too, albeit it’s not easy sometimes to run a TB2 device on TB4 Windows machines. In this regard, Thunderbolt retro compatibility, yes, Apple machines are better.

[Patrice Brousseau]

Windows 11 requires a TPM2.0 module, so Windows 11 won't install on anything older than 2017. And I'm not going to install any hacks or cracks to get around MicroSoft's limitations, even if they are arbitrary.

But here's a new one: yesterday for no apparent reason Windows 10 started telling me it wasn't activated. I was able to eventually get to a screen that let me fix it, and lo and behold, it discovered my digital license. But why did it dump it in the first place? Yet another buggy Windows update to blame?

Installed with a little tweak on my MacMini 2018 without TPM2.0 support, not a big deal! In the same vein, you can run newer MacOS’ses on unsupported older machines with the help of OpenCore Legacy Patcher. Benefits and tricks on the the two platforms…

[Patrice Brousseau]

I have set up countless Windows machines for music/video/education etc and for the most part it has been install software/run software for years without any problems...and Blue Screen of Death??? Last time I saw one of them, was installing SP2 on an old Win XP laptop circa 2003.

Latest one I got… was caused by a defective CPU. The last real BSOD I experienced was when I was running Windows XP!

[Patrice Brousseau]

I am very interested in a solution. I have two X99 systems here with no TPM modules. The only thing I have read is that we can continue to use Windows 10 on these boxes until 2025 and then get security updates for another 3 years by paying some cash I think $30 per year.

Can you point to an article that explains the process you describe? I can do my own reading and grunt work. I just need a pointer. Much appreciated

Microsoft allows you to build your own installer to bypass TPM, Microsoft Account, or any other "consumer" system requirements for a Win11 installation. These are not "hacks or cracks"

I hope that helps you out!

You could also build an USB bootable Windows installer with Rufus and tick the two options to bypass TPM requirements.

https://www.makeuseof.com/rufus-bypass- ... indows-11/

[Patrice Brousseau]

But can you do that on a Bootcamp install?

Like I replied to you in a precedent post, done on my Intel MacMini! No merit as I easily found a guide on YouTube

[Funky40]

You do know that RME runs equally, ....

i am aware of RME, yes.
Do you know how much a 8CH RME TB AI costs ?

......... if not better than any TB3 audio interface?

this is interesting to hear.
Is it really faster than a Quantum2626 on a mac ? or otherwise similarly good, since it´s a USB interface ?
On macs, the Q26226 is a real bargain when smallest latenzys do play a role, and budget too.

In this regard, Thunderbolt retro compatibility, yes, Apple machines are better.

well, .......

[Patrice Brousseau]

To the OP, to get back on track :

***… and to conclude my numerous barrage of replies in this thread… for now

As much as I would like to get a new MacMini M4 Pro, just for the sake of having a new Mac, it would cost me… 3649 Canadian dollars with the option of a 2 Tb SSD (I think there is a way to replace it by yourself but it looks a bit tricky!) and 64 Gb of RAM (for my sampling libraries).

I also heard a video on YouTube with an M4 doing intensive CPU workload and the fan sounds exactly like my older MacMini pushed under load, no go for me in a DAW environment for what I do. If you don’t use microphones and do all your stuff ITB, fine.



My latest Z390 Hackintosh build was around 1500-1600$… and I’ve since replaced/updated the RAM, some SSD’s and even, the CPU. Try it with an M chip Apple machine!