Dune 3 Genetics - why is nobody talking about it? (including Synapse Audio!)

[Chockychallenge]

I've had Dune 3 for a few months now, and with the Genetics feature, I can take a two or three pads and create really usable new pads, about one in three to five is as good as, or better than the originals I created it from. Other types of sounds can be more hit and miss, but it's still just a matter of pressing the `Generate' button a few more times, and being selective about which presets you use as seeds.

The reason I say that even Synapse Audio doesn't seem to be talking about it, is because the word 'genetics' doesn't even appear on the Dune 3 product page here:
https://www.synapse-audio.com/dune3.html
when for me, it's the most important feature ever implemented on a synth - the ability to make good quality presets from existing ones, with zero effort. I believe that Predator 3 from Rob Papen has a 'morph' function, but I've never tried it, so I don't know if it compares to Dune 3.

[Touch The Universe]

Spire has something similar too.

[Stokely]

That is odd they don't mention it.

I get that this feature wouldn't be exciting to many--thinking of the people that have something definite in mind and start from INIT and make it so--but I'm a certified unapologetic preset tweaker--very often I don't what I want for a sound until I stumble across it. I often get inspired to write parts from presets, rather than the other way around. In so saying, I find this a fantastic feature provided it actually comes up with usable results and not just garbled nonsense.

Edit: just watched a vid on it, and it looks great as you choose the patches whose "dna" you want and then the amount that they'll replace the current patch (I think). Then hitting generate again sounded completely different. I'd use the hell out of that, and frankly it puts Dune 3 on my radar (I like Dune 3 anyway and almost bought it in the past, I just don't really need any synths...) And it appears that Legend HZ has this feature as well, and that's one I am definitely going to get if it ever goes on sale!

I haven't owned Omnisphere that long but it has a randomizer on just the Orb I think.

[Chris-S]

Spire is using AI. Which may or may not work similar to generics .

[liquidsound]

Spire? Not even close to this.

[seafire]

It was added 3 years ago

[Chockychallenge]

Oh yes, I forgot about Legend HZ having that feature too, that will be the next on my to buy list. I've just created five lovely pads in about five minutes, using some of the factory bank pads, it's great. I can't see a need to buy any soundbanks really, with Dune 3, because you just endlessly create more and more sounds from the factory banks.

[Fannon]

Here is a tool I created that can generate presets for u-he synths based on existing presets. It works similar to the feature in Dune 3 I think. It's not using AI, but its also not just pure randomization. I hesitate to call it genetics, because I think without having a "fitness function" and evolutionary algorithms, that would be overstated.

viewtopic.php?t=609896

[martinjuenke]

Isn't it cold coffee?

[Vortifex]

It's not very well implemented. Not sure if it's the same in Dune, but in The Legend the function is hidden in a menu, it's not even obvious it exists. If you right click a preset you get a Generate option, and when you select it it adds that preset plus the next one in the list to the Generate window, which you might not have wanted, but if you deselect the one you didn't want it deselects both of them, so you have to drag the one you wanted back into the window. If you save a Generate preset it automatically gives it a random name which you then have to change, instead of just letting you name it when you save it.

[Touch The Universe]

Genetics is a neat tool but lack that edge that puts it over the top.

That said, I have a lot of experience as a sound designer. I used to be a preset tweaker too. I can easily see how such a feature would be amazing and also cause me to not be interested in other presets if I didn't have the experience of creating presets.

There is a season for everything. Start rolling your own is the best advice I can give. Until then, second best advice I can give is not to discount custom banks yet.

I'd be happy to prove the point by sending you a bank of mine for free to see for yourself how a dedicated bank compares to the genetics, if you don't have any already.

If for some odd reason you disagree, please share examples of the genetic presets that you find would be better so perhaps others can chime in on this potentially interesting debate.

If somehow I lose out, maybe some other designer can eventually prove the point if they are so inclined.

[kropotkin303]

I use Synapse Orion still and nearly all the synths had genetics on them, except the wavetable ones. Also some non Synase VSTs. Fun to use, just remember to save as you may never get that hybrid patch again. Cool.

[Teksonik]

for me, it's the most important feature ever implemented on a synth

For me it's the most utterly worthless feature ever added to any synth.

Not learning how to program your synths is like not learning how to tune your guitar or how to change strings on it without help.

Learning to make your own patches allows you to form your own style and can be quite rewarding. Starting at INIT then ending up with a great sounding patch is very satisfying. As someone who has created over 1,000 patches for DUNE 3 I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's not rocket science. All you need is to have a little imagination and to put the time into learning....the same things you also need to create music.

How do you think those patches you use in Genetics came about? That's right, someone learned how to make them.

But the Genetics feature already exists in DUNE 3 so people are free to use it if they wish and more creative users are free to ignore it and that's a win win.

Now I realize my comment will generate a storm of dissent especially from KVR's resident reprobate so I won't bother coming back to this thread and won't read any responses. Just remember that if you use crutches you'll never learn to walk without them......

[tatanka]

Genetics is a neat tool but lack that edge that puts it over the top.

That said, I have a lot of experience as a sound designer. I used to be a preset tweaker too. I can easily see how such a feature would be amazing and also cause me to not be interested in other presets if I didn't have the experience of creating presets.

There is a season for everything. Start rolling your own is the best advice I can give. Until then, second best advice I can give is not to discount custom banks yet.

I'd be happy to prove the point by sending you a bank of mine for free to see for yourself how a dedicated bank compares to the genetics, if you don't have any already.

If for some odd reason you disagree, please share examples of the genetic presets that you find would be better so perhaps others can chime in on this potentially interesting debate.

If somehow I lose out, maybe some other designer can eventually prove the point if they are so inclined.

First: in my opinion the genetics in Dune 3 is definitely the best of all these "morph" or whatever functions I have seen and the AI in Spire for me simply dont bring any useful results (I still wonder how they made that one free wonderful bank with it....) so far.

Then: guess which presets I have used for some genetics pads

So for me it does not replace good presets/soundbanks/soundsets but it just gives the option to generate something unique out of different composer styles (so for example if I need something drenched in every available fx ).

And: in Spire you choose some criteria and then it generates lets say 20 presets, you have to listen to it, 19 times instant delete, then again...

In genetics you choose the presets, set some parameters, hit generate till you find something useful, it gets saved under an automatically generated name, you can do this till you have enought GOOD for example pad variants and then rename the generated presets as you like.

[IvyBirds]

I get that this feature wouldn't be exciting to many--thinking of the people that have something definite in mind and start from INIT and make it so

There is actually a very good case for a middle of the road approach between starting totally from scratch and just letting the plugin totally generate a new patch

You find a patch you like, use Genetics to generate a new one, and then use that as your INIT patch and take it somewhere else

Doing that you still are creating a patch just taking a different path to get there and you will often end up at a different destination than you would have reached on your own

This also works great with any plugin that has randomization or other generative tools