Philosophical: Technicality does not equate good music

[VOODOO U]

Those who can't write a hit song get technical and philosophical.

[Agg]

Those who can't write a hit song get technical and philosophical.

OP was kinda arguing against hit songs tho, no? Hit music is often very layered, polished, well mixed & mastered etc. Religious use of established methods, song structures, and music theory guidelines. Isn't that what technicality essentially is? Or are we talking technical, as in a drummer who has such a good "technique" he can play 280bpm deathcore or something?

[VOODOO U]

OP was kinda arguing against hit songs tho, no?

I can't speak for the OP but Hit songs do get a bad rap from "real" musicians.

Hit music is often very layered, polished, well mixed & mastered etc. Religious use of established methods, song structures, and music theory guidelines. Isn't that what technicality essentially is?

If it is it has nothing to do with the foundation of a hit song which is a process that happens in the the initial writing. That process is don't think and go until you feel that "hook:.
If there is a technical aspect to that writing process the writer (one who is authentically in the don't think zone) doesn't know it and doesn't care because all that matters is that "rush", that "high" feeling from the "hook".
It's one reason i avoid music theory like the plague. For years i had written without theory knowledge other than basic naming of chords.
I decided to dive in and learn it but stopped because that natural instinctive flow from the "No think zone" was inhibited. I can't have that. I need that intuitive no think zone to write. Alcohol helps but that's all it does.....help. it doesn't *activate* the natural flow.

Or are we talking technical, as in a drummer who has such a good "technique" he can play 280bpm deathcore or something?

Well there's the drummer that can play 280bpm deathcore and then there is the guitar wanker that finger taps scales and calls it a song.
I know it's all relative but for my tastes the latter has no soul. No feeling. It's a robot. The former is just a really fast drummer and heck, fast drumming (and guitar wankery) *can* be used to write hit music (Van Halen Hot For Teacher) but you don't need to play scales and finger tap to write Bad Romance or Poker Face. You just need to get in the no think zone.
Human League might be a good example of writing hit music and not being a wank job about it.
IIRC they started out experimenting because all this synth and drum machine shit was new. So not much thinking involved right? Just push buttons move sliders and let's see what happens.
Don't you want me.....that's what happened.

[mjolnir]

maybe some people resent music which lacks a "message" and therefore frame it as "technical" or "without soul"
but actually i'm just guessing and grasping at straws since I don't feel that way myself.

[vurt]

maybe some people resent music which lacks a "message" and therefore frame it as "technical" or "without soul".

maybe the music doesn't lack a message, just some folk can't understand it, if it's not repeated in the chorus over and over.

[bobbackwards]

At heart I am a huge music snob, but I am self aware enough to know that when I hear a song and think to myself "this is rock bottom crap" that this stupid pop song with a three word chorus repeated ad nauseum is somebodies favorite song...and it brings them joy. Who am I to try and take that joy away? I think that a lot of music is bad but that doesn't mean it is worthless, or artless. Actually, my biggest criticism of music is when it is dishonest. You could certainly make the argument that a great deal of popular music is dishonest (read that as a cynical corporate money grab) but I am not sure that disqualifies it from being an art form.

[vurt]

At heart I am a huge music snob, but I am self aware enough to know that when I hear a song and think to myself "this is rock bottom crap" that this stupid pop song with a three word chorus repeated ad nauseum is somebodies favorite song...and it brings them joy. Who am I to try and take that joy away? I think that a lot of music is bad but that doesn't mean it is worthless, or artless. Actually, my biggest criticism of music is when it is dishonest. You could certainly make the argument that a great deal of popular music is dishonest (read that as a cynical corporate money grab) but I am not sure that disqualifies it from being an art form.

i wasn't criticising the pop music, but people who moan about electronic music, not having a message, because they are used to "songs"
im as fond of some 3 minute pop songs as i am of some instrumental 40 minutes pieces.

[bobbackwards]

I got you vurt...I was just trying (badly) to highlight how difficult it is to qualify any art as "good," or not. Really kind of a fools game. Is Mozart objectively good? I would say unequivocally yes, but how many people actually LISTEN to Mozart? I mean like more than in the background at the Dr's office...Obviously many people do, but not any where near the number who listen to say, Dua Lipa. How many folks can listen to Piano Concerto No. 23 and No. 11 and know the difference? My point is, the thing that makes Mozart "good' and John Tesh not good is my preferences and bias. I think Brushy One String is super fun but Chris Thile is a freakin' genius, is one more ART than the other? Again it's fun mental masturbation but there is no "answer." My previous point about the examination of art being the thing that makes all of this worthwhile is ultimately where I land.

[_leras]

i wasn't criticising the pop music, but people who moan about electronic music, not having a message, because they are used to "songs"
im as fond of some 3 minute pop songs as i am of some instrumental 40 minutes pieces.

To be fair a lot of electronic music doesn't have a message. It may have a vibe, feeling or emotion, but I don't think it usually possible to say 'oh this techno track is anti war'.

It's more aligned with classical music in the sense that you can be taken on a journey and your imagination will fill in the gaps.

Also, I have to say, especially here but also outside here, some of the people most vehemently against modern/current electronic music are those who seem to be stuck in the past and complaining how it isn't like music used to be.

[vurt]

those people annoy me too, and im old enough to forget my granddaughters did my makeup and go to the shop

isn't most techno about the same thing most pop music is about? getting laid? was in my day, all that slinky dancing and rubbing up against strangers, everyone e'd up to the eyeballs, gurning like a that's life competition winner!!

[HAL76]

They don't play in my head after hearing them.

Sometimes I hear an echoe from long ago and follow it but I´m always again surprised how few remain in my head. or I suddenly notice how someone has settled in on me.

But that never worked with "technical" songs and probably will never.

Back when this song was made we laughed about it. We didn´t know anything about it and the philosophy behind it. It just came over us from the radio. We just didn´t understand it and thought the americans were kitschy. I think it is two years ago now that I suddendly felt like it ... and realized how awesome THAT is

[_leras]

isn't most techno about the same thing most pop music is about? getting laid? was in my day, all that slinky dancing and rubbing up against strangers, everyone e'd up to the eyeballs, gurning like a that's life competition winner!!

Nah... It's about the music!

The rest of that is just a byproduct of normal everyday life. You can do all that in the library.

[vurt]

you and i, go to very different library's!