Intel seems to have a few financial issues

[Synthman2000]

Always ran Intel CPU's for audio and always been extremely happy with them.

I do wonder if it might be time to investigate AMD. Not to start knee jerk reactions but I do wonder what it might mean for desktop and laptop CPU's

https://www.euronews.com/next/2024/12/0 ... -chipmaker

[pekbro]

To me the AI, NPU thing is more troubling, seems like in the future there may not be any personal computers, only personal AI's that can do all your computing tasks for you. That doesn't seem very fun to me...

Well... at least until that AI comes in a configurable artificial physical body that can be made indistinguishable from a real human (or whatever floats your boat) body...

[jamcat]

You should investigate Qualcomm instead. ARM is the future, to the extent that Windows has one. x86_64 has run its course.

Windows world is in for some rough years ahead. The fragmentation alone is going to be devastating. The extinction-level event that Microsoft and Intel have been avoiding is starting to make landfall.

Apple successfully evolved and survived. Microsoft as we know it may not be able. Intel most certainly won’t.

[Synthman2000]

Thanks for the heads up on Qualcomm Jamcat. I see a guy in a pretend gift shop making a website and someone making a racing helmet for a soon to be deprecated fuel type racing car. (Not very forward thinking)

Just a load of "be cool with us" marketing by the looks of things. I don't buy it yet.

https://www.qualcomm.com/snapdragon/laptops

Like 99pct of people need a desktop and one that works with the major DAW's and certainly for now Windows.

It seems Steinberg are writing test software of their flagship software for it.

https://www.soundonsound.com/news/stein ... m-previews

Maybe Intel will scrape by and maybe AMD will also adopt the new tech. I will drop a few articles I have seen about AMD/Intel here for the benefit of others. Though bear in mind the dates and most recent Intel announcements.

https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/proces ... -hegemony/

https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/23/239 ... ase-rumors

https://windowsreport.com/snapdragon-x- ... l-core-i7/

Some good points raised here about organizational compatibility:

https://www.reddit.com/r/windows/commen ... e_onlyarm/

Most pro music producers need a lot of processing power. I won't even touch a laptop for music. Software can take a lot of processing power as we know, some of it and often the best sounding can take vasts amount of CPU. The needs of the best sounding software increase it seems to me that the new CPU's will need to become much better and quickly for professional audio and beyond high demand workstation use.

I suspect a somewhat similar situation, huge hype and a very slight increase in performance in some situations. And maybe in 5-10 years time. A storm in a tea cup in terms of real advantages, but huge problems for industry and end users if willing to accept it and buy in. I removed Windows co pilot immediately on my PC's.

But there will be huge upheaval, problems for all software developers (some will not survive obviously) Hardware deprecation, software deprecation, need to spend lots of $$$$ and very little real world improvement. In other worlds same old, same old.

I appreciate you bringing it to my/our attention Jamcat.

We shall watch the evolving situation.

[Lerian]

ARM is the future, to the extent that Windows has one. x86_64 has run its course.

That is not accurate. ARM is another way of computing, but its not the holy grail of computing. x64 is still alive and well, and will be like that for a long time from now - at least 10 years without even 20% of the market lost to ARM. Its not even settled that ARM architecture is the way to go forward in computing. Apple is still under 15% of the computer market - meaning only laptops and pre-assembled PCs, not DIY computers from parts. Intel problems are of another nature, not x64 arhitecture related - mainly greed and bad management which translated into manufacturing problems.

AMD is the CPU choice for now, at least until intel will fix their designs and manufacturing process - which will take at least 3-4 years - 1, 2 to fix them and another 1, 2 to be tested by the market. Newer AMD AM5 CPUs are the top choice for audio, video, and gaming purposes. Anyone who says otherwise is just an intel fanboy who got stuck in the past.

[uOpt]

Always ran Intel CPU's for audio and always been extremely happy with them.

I do wonder if it might be time to investigate AMD. Not to start knee jerk reactions but I do wonder what it might mean for desktop and laptop CPU's

https://www.euronews.com/next/2024/12/0 ... -chipmaker

AMD has been my weapon if choice for a short while for now. Major reasons are ECC RAM with many regular consumer mainboards and not having to deal with E-cores. They are worth considering for sure.

I would prefer Intel from a software standpoint because they still have an edge with diagnostic and profiling tools but that doesn't make me go out and spend $$$ on a W680 board, only to then have limited board choices. And there are no ECC-enabled boards (or chipsets for that matter) for Core 285 yet. I can have ECC with the newest AMD CPUs any old day of the week.

[Synthman2000]

Is ARM the Dolby Atmos of CPU's ?

Are tech companies really this short on ideas that have a true impact on people looking at junk on the internet, typing a letter or using a spreadsheet. It looks a lot like the next attempted cash cow. Serious computer users need mature, seriously well road tested tech - reliable machines. With the option of hardcore CPU grunt if your line of work needs it.

ARM seems like is the opposite of all the above for now. Riding on the incredibly dull and boring AI bubble. Let AI solve cancer then we can take it seriously.

Do AMD CPU's have 'on board' video ? Any efficiency gain in terms of electricity usage would have to factor in a sep video card. I answered my own question:

https://computercity.com/hardware/proce ... d-graphics

Many do not. Does the AMD socketed motherboard take care of it ? No it seems not also answered it.. so that is card power consumption (min 30W) to add to the machine + around $130 for a basic card. That is very uninteresting indeed.

16GB is tonnes for me no worries about memory type here.

[RobGee]

Yeah the company is in a bit of a state. Saying that my 14900K and 14980HX run blazing fast and I’ve had no compatibility issues. I don’t really care for the state their finances or the company. I’m buying a processor not shares in the company. I don’t see what relevance any of that has on how well daw/plugins run on an Intel processor

[Synthman2000]

It is true I and I suspect 99.9pct of people have never been in contact with Intel support to resolve a CPU issue, no one would even have the knowledge anyway. However it is worth watching this, given they don't appear to be in great shape.

[vstdls]

You should investigate Qualcomm instead. ARM is the future, to the extent that Windows has one. x86_64 has run its course.

Windows world is in for some rough years ahead. The fragmentation alone is going to be devastating. The extinction-level event that Microsoft and Intel have been avoiding is starting to make landfall.

Apple successfully evolved and survived. Microsoft as we know it may not be able. Intel most certainly won’t.

Yeah. AWS, Azure, Google, and thier facilities (Which Apple utilizes, like everyone else) are definitely on board with that opinion, and are scrapping those billions of processors and infrastructure in favor of the latest MacBook you just bought.

Things won't look the same in 20 years, but what you just posted is either just misguided, or an indication of severe mental disabilities.

[jamcat]

AWS uses Amazon's own ARM-based Graviton processors, while Google uses their own Arm-based Axion processors in their data centers. Even Microsoft is running Azure with their own ARM-based Azure Cobalt processors. So yes, everyone is moving away from x86 to ARM.

But I'm talking about new consumer PCs, anyways, not legacy corporate infrastructure (which is mostly Linux.) The Intel architecture has run out of runway. There is just not much more power that can be squeezed out of it, in large part due to its poor performance-per-watt ratio.

Microsoft has a problem. They know they have to move Windows over to ARM to remain competitive. But unlike Apple, they don't have a lot of control over the hardware side or the tempo. So as Intel goes down, there isn't going to be a clear heir-apparent or center of gravity. This is what will lead to fragmentation, where they will be stuck straddling two incompatible platforms for years, with little hope for consolidation, and 3rd-party software support stuck in a holding pattern. It was a fairly easy transition for Apple because they control both the hardware and the OS. It won't be so easy for Microsoft. The fact that you all still want to talk about Intel and AMD is proof of that.

But maybe they'll come up with something clever that doesn't flop this time, unlike Microsoft Gadgets, Clippy, or the Windows Phone. Or half the versions of Windows they've put out.

[vstdls]

Yes, an expected 25% penetration rate by 2026 for ARM chips powering cloud. Intel is dead.

Except it's not, and won't be, and I don't even care either way.

But let's say you're right, so you don't throw any intro to debate 101 level "straw man" characterizations again: This "fragmentation" prophecy of Apple domination won't go your way. I opine that like last time...when Apple sank and was saved by an mp3 player, other companies will just make better, faster chips, and provide them to customers at a reasonable price, unlike Apple.

But you clarify you're only talking about personal computing. Business computers are personal computers. In what fantasy do you live in to think that Microsoft cant/won't provide an OS on whatever architecture the actual biiiig MONEY makers need or use?

The Intel 386 was in production from 1985 - 2007. Nobody's ditching everything and moving to Apple, other than campus recruiters and handbag accessorizers.

[jamcat]

A quarter of cloud computing within 1 year from now is huge for such a new technology this soon. Especially considering how much the industry is being taken over by the cloud. I didn't realize it was already that bad for Intel. Now extrapolate that out. Yes, they are toast.

I'm not saying anything about Apple domination. I've not stated that once. I'm just talking about the rough times ahead for Windows, and the end times for Intel. Though, yes, Apple has navigated the transition successfully already, while Microsoft has yet to even embark upon it in earnest.

It took a few years to get software universally onboard with Apple Silicon. It was slightly inconvenient for a while. That is nothing compared to what the coming carnage is going to look like on Windows, which will have no end in sight.

The problem for Microsoft isn't in creating an OS on whatever architecture. The problem for Microsoft will be consolidating the userbase (and 3rd-party developers) on a single one, and fighting to keep its market share, not just against Apple, but also Google and who knows who else that will emerge.

ARM is a disruptive technology. So is the cloud and AI. The slow but certain death of Intel is equally disruptive. Market disruptions tend to destabilize things in unpredictable ways. Microsoft and Intel benefited from long-term predictability and stability, which resulted in Windows being dominant for 30 years. But things are moving fast.

[Lerian]

You do have a point that CISC is near its endlife and RISC will be a better choice for the future. That doesn't mean that ARM will be the only one moving forward. There are also other architectures like Alpha, ARC, AVR, MIPS, PA-RISC, PIC, Power Architecture, SPARC, and even intel had its own RISC cpu long time ago - the i860. So its still debatable, and a subject of who gets to win the race. ARM is a British company owned by a Japanese bank, not an American company, like Intel is. Which makes it less obedient to American interests. Even the Chinese may get into this race soon, as they recently developed their own lithography machines, so the jury is still out.

That future, however, is not 5-10 years away, but more like 15-20 years away (if even that). And microsoft is not that helpless as you make it, they are a huge business that can always implement a rosetta-like framework while moving away from x86. But there's a lot of profit still to be made on current platform.

[Synthman2000]

I have loved Intel since day 1 PC use. Let's have a bit of respect.

We are speaking about devices that have something to the order of 50 Billion transistors. Each drawing power from the same PSU and doing things 99.9pct of end users we cannot really even understand, on a piece of conductive matter around the size of an inch square.

And to think in many, many years I never had a single Intel CPU malfunction.

Intel has in part powered my income for the last couple of decades.

It's easy to pretend we are some high level DSP micro electronic engineers, tech gurus but we know little and should write accordingly. That is how I feel anyway.

If I used one of Intels latest CPU's for the rest of my life, doing what it can, in a music machine I would die happy with it. There is some perspective. All progress of CPU has been pretty slow the last years compared with years gone by. They are still amazing beyond words. Let's consider it a bit and be humbled.

What you can do if inclined with even a decade old 4 core 486 Intel CPU in music is astonishing.(To me anyway and I am glad I appreciate it that way) Never mind one of their newest offerings.

New tech takes time to become mature, stable, reliable, trusted. Virtues much more important to most than speed or the cutting edge.
(ok ARM is not actually new but widespread use for personal computers beyond phones)

Let's be realistic about the current situation and actually how slow it is compared to modern top end multi core 486 CPU's. That's today, the tech companies have the headache of squeezing this into a consumer pipeline that works financially.

All computing changes of course, much we have little control over and ultimately as end users we have to buy what is offered based on information we can understand related to task we want completed by a computer. If most people stop using their brains and rely on AI then of course it will favour this aspect more, right or wrong.

I actually hope Intel resolve their current problems. Why would anyone not ?