I'm developing a free 3D music visualization software. Currently I'm working on visualizing scene arrangements. Static visualization of tracks is the easier part.
When I want to move things correctly at correct speed, I need to translate the tempo and time signatures into object positions at correct frames.
- Bitwig supports linear tempo automation - the line is straight, can't be bent
- Ableton supports also bending the automation line - it looks like a bezier curve to me
- No idea about other DAWs
- By my understanding, MIDI tempo automations are constant - tempo's automation line is totally horizontal, then a big step to new tempo. Exporting from Bitwig to midi and importing again into a new bitwig project makes the tempo automations disappear. Bitwig kinda knows that it should add automations, but the changes are lost (am I doing something wrong?)
Finally, my questions:
1. Can I just ignore tempo automations? It would make things 100x easier for me, but I don't want to cut big part of potential projects.
2. How frequent/usual are songs with tempo (and time signature) automations?
3. Is there any universal file format for scenes? I'm almost sure it doesn't. I'm currently working only with DAWproject files, because it's easy to parse. Next step is .als file support. Probably MIDI support will follow, but it lacks the concept of "clips", so the result will be limited.
Sorry if I'm not speaking clearly in music language, I have no formal education in this domain and have zero music talent (shame on me).
Current state, early stage:
Tempo automations and support in various software
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- KVRer
- 5 posts since 19 Oct, 2024
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
There are two ways it works: the more basic one is going to change tempo by step; alternately, by rampexample-sk wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2024 7:47 am
- Ableton supports also bending the automation line - it looks like a bezier curve to me
- By my understanding, MIDI tempo automations are constant - tempo's automation line is totally horizontal, then a big step to new tempo.
I don't know from a bezier curve; in Cubase or Nuendo there's one kind of ramp, it isn't a bezier or one that can be manipulated, it's set. I reckon less is more here.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
I'd have to know what input from music the visualizer is supposed to take, or what the aesthetic goals are, to opine. I'd have to know why a DAW's tempi is a starting point.example-sk wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2024 7:47 am 1. Can I just ignore tempo automations? It would make things 100x easier for me, but I don't want to cut big part of potential projects.
I have as much idea of this area as you do of music theory. I'd think flexible tempo would be real basic but what do I know.,
I can't speak for anyone but myself. There are whole areas of popular music where nothing changes in this regard. I OTOH make music that frequently ends up with a lot of changes I tend to sort out in terms of the grid out after an improvisation.example-sk wrote: Sat Nov 02, 2024 7:47 am 2. How frequent/usual are songs with tempo (and time signature) automations?
the point being, though, <living, breathing music> as opposed to mechanized assembly line
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- KVRAF
- 16801 posts since 8 Mar, 2005 from Utrecht, Holland
Yes, being able to change tempo is rather essential.
I'd advice to start with implementing abrubt changes of tempo only and forget about lines & splines and such. That leads to nothing but headaches. But there is another reason: look at how tempo changes are implemented by MIDI. It defaults to 120bpm and there can be "tempo change" messages which can occur anywhere in time (but only on track 1 of a type-1 midi file). So in MIDI a gradual change of tempo does not come out of the box, but must be done by continuously sending tempo change messages.
It does not surprise me that a MIDI export from a DAW does not contain tempo changes, especially when they have implemented it very different internally.
I'd advice to start with implementing abrubt changes of tempo only and forget about lines & splines and such. That leads to nothing but headaches. But there is another reason: look at how tempo changes are implemented by MIDI. It defaults to 120bpm and there can be "tempo change" messages which can occur anywhere in time (but only on track 1 of a type-1 midi file). So in MIDI a gradual change of tempo does not come out of the box, but must be done by continuously sending tempo change messages.
It does not surprise me that a MIDI export from a DAW does not contain tempo changes, especially when they have implemented it very different internally.
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My MusicCalc is served over https!!
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
as far as what a DAW will export in terms of changing tempi, if I'm going to use MIDI from this project to the next, since it's all going to have considerable variance, I export the tempo track (Cubase Pro) and import it to the new timeline {"ignore Master Track events* on merge" (*: the tempo nodes)}. Otherwise, doom awaits.