Intel seems to have a few financial issues

[fmr]

You should investigate Qualcomm instead. ARM is the future, to the extent that Windows has one. x86_64 has run its course.

Windows world is in for some rough years ahead. The fragmentation alone is going to be devastating. The extinction-level event that Microsoft and Intel have been avoiding is starting to make landfall.

Apple successfully evolved and survived. Microsoft as we know it may not be able. Intel most certainly won’t.

Stating that a platform that has more than 80% market share (I am talking about computers, not all devices - for that, Android would be the the undisputed winner) is going to vanish in smoke, all of a sudden, while one that barely has 10% will rise triumphant is by any means delusional.

Even if Intel face some financial troubles, they will, most certainly, find investors to keep going. TYey have many sought-after technologies. And in what concerns Qualcomm, you seem to forget the the most successful chip company nowadays is Nvidia, and if I had to guess, they will rise as the strongest contender in the near future. Qualcomm CPUs, AFAIK, only have an advantage in terms of power saving. In terms of raw power, they are not a contender. Don't let Apple marketing BS full you.

[vstdls]

A quarter of cloud computing within 1 year from now is huge for such a new technology this soon. Especially considering how much the industry is being taken over by the cloud. I didn't realize it was already that bad for Intel. Now extrapolate that out. Yes, they are toast.

You are making counter points I'm not even sure you are aware you are making. Thinking that ARM is a brand new, disruptive technology just sort of illuminates how much of a fruit-computer fan boy you are being.

[Scotty]

We can do this without the insults. Jamcat has a penchant for the hyperbolic. I think he underestimates the resources that Intel has available to help them through this historic low period. Intel won't go down without a fight. Rumours of their pending demise are premature.

A quarter of cloud computing within 1 year from now is huge for such a new technology this soon. Especially considering how much the industry is being taken over by the cloud. I didn't realize it was already that bad for Intel. Now extrapolate that out. Yes, they are toast.

You are making counter points I'm not even sure you are aware you are making. Thinking that ARM is a brand new, disruptive technology just sort of illuminates how much of a fruit-computer fan boy you are being.

[elxsound]

We can do this without the insults. Jamcat has a penchant for the hyperbolic. I think he underestimates the resources that Intel has available to help them through this historic low period. Intel won't go down without a fight. Rumours of their pending demise are premature.

A quarter of cloud computing within 1 year from now is huge for such a new technology this soon. Especially considering how much the industry is being taken over by the cloud. I didn't realize it was already that bad for Intel. Now extrapolate that out. Yes, they are toast.

You are making counter points I'm not even sure you are aware you are making. Thinking that ARM is a brand new, disruptive technology just sort of illuminates how much of a fruit-computer fan boy you are being.

From reading, it seem the troubles are relegated to doing something other than x86, but the money will keep flowing for a long while.

Supporting that they will remain for a long time (and published yesterday)…

https://www.engadget.com/computing/firi ... 20381.html

[jamcat]

A quarter of cloud computing within 1 year from now is huge for such a new technology this soon. Especially considering how much the industry is being taken over by the cloud. I didn't realize it was already that bad for Intel. Now extrapolate that out. Yes, they are toast.

You are making counter points I'm not even sure you are aware you are making. Thinking that ARM is a brand new, disruptive technology just sort of illuminates how much of a fruit-computer fan boy you are being.

ARM is new and disruptive in this space. The ARM-based processors that are taking over cloud computing have only been around since 2023. You think Google, Amazon, and Microsoft ALL developing their own ARM-based processors just over the last year or two and replacing their x86 data center farms isn't disruptive? Or new?

Or are you just trying to "well, actually" me with some pedantic argument that ARM has technically existed since the '90s?

And yes, they are all following Apple's lead. But Apple made the move out of necessity. And it's the same necessity that everyone else is feeling, because x86 is headed towards a brick wall.

Look, I'm not saying ARM is the end of history. But it is the next chapter.

[jamcat]

And in what concerns Qualcomm, you seem to forget the the most successful chip company nowadays is Nvidia, and if I had to guess, they will rise as the strongest contender in the near future.

Except that Nvidia does RISC-V, not ARM. And Microsoft does Windows 11 ARM. The significance of Qualcomm here is that Windows 11 ARM runs on Snapdragon (and soon will run on Microsoft’s own Azure Cobalt 100.) It’s not going to run on RISC-V, unless Microsoft is planning to fragment even further.

[donkey tugger]

disruptive in this space.

Eaten a management consultant bollocks-speak book?

Stop it!

[jamcat]

Yeah, I'm not proud.

But I just didn't want to bother defining the parameters.
I guess I could have said 'area' or 'domain'. But what is done is done.

[fmr]

And in what concerns Qualcomm, you seem to forget the the most successful chip company nowadays is Nvidia, and if I had to guess, they will rise as the strongest contender in the near future.

Except that Nvidia does RISC-V, not ARM. And Microsoft does Windows 11 ARM. The significance of Qualcomm here is that Windows 11 ARM runs on Snapdragon (and soon will run on Microsoft’s own Azure Cobalt 100.) It’s not going to run on RISC-V, unless Microsoft is planning to fragment even further.

And what software runs in Windows ARM? You realize that there isn't even an emulator like Rosetta 2.0. If it wasn't for Rosetta 2.0, Apple would have failed miserably.

Windows ARM is nothing more than a proof of concept, for the time being.

[jamcat]

And what software runs in Windows ARM? You realize that there isn't even an emulator like Rosetta 2.0. If it wasn't for Rosetta 2.0, Apple would have failed miserably.

Windows ARM is nothing more than a proof of concept, for the time being.

Yes, exactly. That's what I mean when I say "Apple has navigated the transition successfully already, while Microsoft has yet to even embark upon it in earnest."

Very rough times ahead for Windows, with no clear path forward.

[Burillo]

And in what concerns Qualcomm, you seem to forget the the most successful chip company nowadays is Nvidia, and if I had to guess, they will rise as the strongest contender in the near future.

Except that Nvidia does RISC-V, not ARM. And Microsoft does Windows 11 ARM. The significance of Qualcomm here is that Windows 11 ARM runs on Snapdragon (and soon will run on Microsoft’s own Azure Cobalt 100.) It’s not going to run on RISC-V, unless Microsoft is planning to fragment even further.

And what software runs in Windows ARM? You realize that there isn't even an emulator like Rosetta 2.0. If it wasn't for Rosetta 2.0, Apple would have failed miserably.

Windows ARM is nothing more than a proof of concept, for the time being.

https://www.windowscentral.com/software ... soft-prism

[jupiter8]

And in what concerns Qualcomm, you seem to forget the the most successful chip company nowadays is Nvidia, and if I had to guess, they will rise as the strongest contender in the near future.

Except that Nvidia does RISC-V, not ARM.

Nvidia Grace?
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/grace-cpu/

Regarding Qualcomm we'll see if they get to keep their ARM license. ARM has canceled it, see how that turns out.

With that said, i don't see how Intels finacial status changes anything right now. If you want an Intel right now i don't see an issue with getting one.

But checking out AMD CPUs is not a bad idea in itself even though i question the reasons for it. They're great.

Qualcomm Snapdragon for DAW use? Interesting to see where it goes in the future but for now, that's a big fat no.

[dellboy]

Qualcomm Snapdragon for DAW use? Interesting to see where it goes in the future but for now, that's a big fat no.

Cubase,Bitwig,Reaper and Reason have already announced they are coming to Arm. Bitwig on Arm will be released this month.

[fmr]

And what software runs in Windows ARM? You realize that there isn't even an emulator like Rosetta 2.0. If it wasn't for Rosetta 2.0, Apple would have failed miserably.

Windows ARM is nothing more than a proof of concept, for the time being.

Yes, exactly. That's what I mean when I say "Apple has navigated the transition successfully already, while Microsoft has yet to even embark upon it in earnest."

Very rough times ahead for Windows, with no clear path forward.

Microsoft has nothing to worry about. Windows ARM is meaningless. As I said, it's a prro of concept, nothing else. Windows has plenty of good and powerful CPUs to run with. Besides, the task Microsoft would be facing to come up with something like Rosetta would be nothing else than infernal. Windows main feature is retrocompatibility (contary to what happens with macOS which breaks compatibility with each iteration).

Windows users expect nothing else. Therefore, releasing a product that would be either a complete nightmare in terms of performance ot would not run most of the legacy applications would cause more harm than good.

Anyway. ARM CPUs are way overrated, IMO, and we will see that in tge future. Power savings is not something to worry for people demanding the best performance out of their machines - performance is. And, performance wise, ARM processor are no competitioin for the most powerful Intel CPUs.

[jamcat]

Nvidia Grace?

Neat. I was not aware of that one. So add one more chipmaker rushing to embrace ARM.

Regarding Qualcomm we'll see if they get to keep their ARM license. ARM has canceled it, see how that turns out.

I don’t think that will bother Microsoft one bit now that they’re making their own ARMs. I wouldn’t be surprised if they go the same way as Apple, and support only their own ARM chips, with Qualcomm out of the way. It would certainly simplify things for them, and give them more leverage to steer adoption of their new platform, but still not nearly as much as Apple had, since they don’t have the control to shut the x86 side of it down on their own timeline.

With that said, i don't see how Intels finacial status changes anything right now. If you want an Intel right now i don't see an issue with getting one.

Not right now. But Windows may very well be exactly where Mac was in 2019/2020. Would you want to have purchased an Intel Mac back then? Perhaps not, in retrospect.

The problem I foresee for Windows is that Windows users and developers are really invested in x86, but Microsoft has every reason to move people to ARM sooner than later, especially with their own Azure Cobalt 100 ready to run Windows 11 ARM. So getting consumers and developers to embrace it is going to be difficult, if not impossible, for years to come. Wintel users are still pretty oblivious and unprepared.

So yeah, Intel can continue for maybe another 5 years of increasingly slowed development and diminishing returns as it approaches its physical shrink limit. But Microsoft absolutely needs to position itself for life after x86 right now. The problem seems to be that they’re dammed if they do and damned if they don’t.