Which LiquidSonics Reverb?

[Alexander_D]

I bought Cinematic Rooms Pro. And it's really great reverb!! Now I am seriously thinking to sell my Valhalla room...

Valhalla Room is actually really good for chorussed/detuned reverbs.

Maybe. But when I was compare it with CRP, it's sounds really strange and unnatural honestly for me...

[beely]

CRP being algorithmic is insanely tweakable

The same goes for Tai Chi - and to a lesser degree HD Cart - too though.

Of course, but in my post I was specifically comparing the differences between the two LS reverbs that are really designed for “realism” to compare how they differ.

TC is different, it’s a chorus reverb that can do more special and character FX, and HDC which is a Lexicon emulation is a different thing again - both of those are also algorithmic too.

They’re all great, but they have somewhat different focuses and strengths (hence why they are different products, although there is overlap.)

[jens]

TC is different, it’s a chorus reverb that can do more special and character FX, and HDC which is a Lexicon emulation is a different thing again - both of those are also algorithmic too.

Here's where I somewhat disagree. Tai Chi is designed to be possibly also very realistic and the chorussing is completely optional.

And the HD Cartridge use the combined DSP ressources of both engines for added realism, plus the plugin goes even beyond that for increased realism.

It's just that CR/P can do even more realistic rooms - plus it has the focus a bit more on smaller rooms, I'd say.

[dionenoid]

Demoing Tai Chi full and Cinematic Rooms full.

It is going to be very difficult to not buy both of these. Way better than Reverberate sadly for me.

Start with the lite versions of both. Big chance that you won't be needing the expert functions of the full or pro version

that would be the responsible choice but the pro version of both is a lot better to my ears.

so far in my travels, Cinematic Rooms Pro does seem to be the best sounding reverb I've ever tried for "that" kind of reverb.

Tai Chi is almost irresistible though, but I could probably pass on it. I don't think it's THAT much better than what you can do with a combination of a few other effects on your own. Though it is definitely better.

I'm pretty dead set on getting Cinematic Rooms Pro, and can probably rest on buying reverbs for a while. I ran it into Adaptiverb on an FX send and it basically just made the track.

They sound identical. You can import CR presets into CRP, they're that identical.

So, ask yourself if the added ducking/gating and surround functions are worth the extra 130 bucks.

[beely]

Here's where I somewhat disagree.

I knew some further quibble with my words was coming, despite multiple edits trying to hopefully minimise this. I'm generalising, not stating outright like "you can't do a realistic sounding reverb with HD Cart" or something, so please don't interpret it that way. I'm sure you can understand my broad point, without me having to list and cover every possible use case in a forum post.

Tai Chi is designed to be possibly also very realistic and the chorussing is completely optional.

It was designed specifically to experiment with FDN's and a sophisticated chorusing engine, but it is just one part of a good sounding algorithm of course. It has a bunch of other sound designey-type features in it too.

And the HD Cartridge use the combined DSP ressources of both engines for added realism, plus the plugin goes even beyond that for increased realism.

Lexicon's were always designed with chorusing being integral to the algorithm - mostly as a workaround for avoiding unpleasant resonances in the algorithm. This sounded good, but isn't *realistic*, as nature doesn't add chorusing to reverb. Because of this, specifically avoiding this "unrealistic" chorusing effect was how the Quantecs were designed - they were trying to go for absolute realism, with no pitch movement in the tails. A similar thing with the Bricasti - the V1 algorithms are largely chorus free in the tails and were used a lot by people on applications where chorusing isn't suitable (classical, jazz type things, Al Schmitt was a fan of these, movie spaces etc), although the V2 algorithms added later added in a little bit of chorusing (like CRP also later adding in a little bit of chorusing) for additional flavours - in both cases, this is way more subtle than a typical Lexicon though.

These are the kinds of things I'm referring to regarding "realism", not necessary how useful or attractive a particular reverb algorithm might be for a particular case.

It's just that CR/P can do even more realistic rooms

Yes, CRP is designed more around a more realistic effect, not like Tai Chi with loads of chorusing, shimmer algorithms, low bit rate rate stuff etc. You're getting my broader point now.

[jens]

Tai Chi is designed to be possibly also very realistic and the chorussing is completely optional.

It was designed specifically to experiment with FDN's and a sophisticated chorusing engine, but it is just one part of a good sounding algorithm of course. It has a bunch of other sound designey-type features in it too.

If you look at the presets in the Chambers, Rooms and Spaces categories, these all use little chorus, if at all (most just don't).

And the HD Cartridge use the combined DSP ressources of both engines for added realism, plus the plugin goes even beyond that for increased realism.

Lexicon's were always designed with chorusing being integral to the algorithm - mostly as a workaround for avoiding unpleasant resonances in the algorithm.

The way I understand it not so much the HD/Surround algos though...

[Alexander_D]

After CRP I am thinking between Seventh Heaven or Relab LX480 Dual-Engine Reverb V4...
Any suggestions?

[jtsterays]

After CRP I am thinking between Seventh Heaven or Relab LX480 Dual-Engine Reverb V4...
Any suggestions?

If you spend some time to learn the plug then Relab's will be superior, it's actually a really deep and versatile plugin with the dual-engine thing. I asked Relab on GS to do the Bricasti but they denied then said I can already emulate it with LX480 in Rhall HD mode.

[vitocorleone123]

Demoing Tai Chi full and Cinematic Rooms full.

It is going to be very difficult to not buy both of these. Way better than Reverberate sadly for me.

Start with the lite versions of both. Big chance that you won't be needing the expert functions of the full or pro version

that would be the responsible choice but the pro version of both is a lot better to my ears.

so far in my travels, Cinematic Rooms Pro does seem to be the best sounding reverb I've ever tried for "that" kind of reverb.

Tai Chi is almost irresistible though, but I could probably pass on it. I don't think it's THAT much better than what you can do with a combination of a few other effects on your own. Though it is definitely better.

I'm pretty dead set on getting Cinematic Rooms Pro, and can probably rest on buying reverbs for a while. I ran it into Adaptiverb on an FX send and it basically just made the track.

They sound identical. You can import CR presets into CRP, they're that identical.

So, ask yourself if the added ducking/gating and surround functions are worth the extra 130 bucks.

They didn’t sound identical to me - but the difference was small. I spent hours and hours comparing them in fine detail before I had to admit to myself I needed to spend the extra money to get the best sounding reverb (as always: to me).

But if anyone is happy with the less expensive one or can’t hear a difference, then get the less expensive one!

[vitocorleone123]

After CRP I am thinking between Seventh Heaven or Relab LX480 Dual-Engine Reverb V4...
Any suggestions?

If you spend some time to learn the plug then Relab's will be superior, it's actually a really deep and versatile plugin with the dual-engine thing. I asked Relab on GS to do the Bricasti but they denied then said I can already emulate it with LX480 in Rhall HD mode.

To me, Relab is second best at reverbs. Perhaps third. I’m speaking primary about the sound, but their UI design is also not as good as Liquidsonics due to an over reliance on hardware emulation.

That said, I’d definitely get the 480 over 7HP if it was between those two.

But I personally think the UAD 224 sounds better than both, for example. If someone already has CRP then something like the 224 would offer more of a difference.

[Alexander_D]

After CRP I am thinking between Seventh Heaven or Relab LX480 Dual-Engine Reverb V4...
Any suggestions?

If you spend some time to learn the plug then Relab's will be superior, it's actually a really deep and versatile plugin with the dual-engine thing. I asked Relab on GS to do the Bricasti but they denied then said I can already emulate it with LX480 in Rhall HD mode.

To me, Relab is second best at reverbs. Perhaps third. I’m speaking primary about the sound, but their UI design is also not as good as Liquidsonics due to an over reliance on hardware emulation.

That said, I’d definitely get the 480 over 7HP if it was between those two.

Yeah. Maybe it's the point for sure. Right now I can purchase it for 150 USD.... it's nice price I think... Seventh Heaven Pro will be 125 for me...

[jtsterays]

After CRP I am thinking between Seventh Heaven or Relab LX480 Dual-Engine Reverb V4...
Any suggestions?

If you spend some time to learn the plug then Relab's will be superior, it's actually a really deep and versatile plugin with the dual-engine thing. I asked Relab on GS to do the Bricasti but they denied then said I can already emulate it with LX480 in Rhall HD mode.

To me, Relab is second best at reverbs. Perhaps third. I’m speaking primary about the sound, but their UI design is also not as good as Liquidsonics due to an over reliance on hardware emulation.

That said, I’d definitely get the 480 over 7HP if it was between those two.

But I personally think the UAD 224 sounds better than both, for example. If someone already has CRP then something like the 224 would offer more of a difference.

Never tried the UAD, will check that out later. IDK if Alex already bought it but I would get Tai Chi over those 2 (or Exponential Audio reverbs). I know LX480 is a dead on emulation of the hardware but it sounds kinda boring imo, for Lexicon sound it's either the PCM or Symphony/R4 for me, their tails are so alive and beautiful. I don't remember liking 7HP too when I tested it a while ago. The hardware is famous it's transparency but I found 7HP to be too colored for me, it sounds like a really thick and upfront layer rather than blending in with the source (I didn't test it for long tho so I might change my mind now but demo is expired).

[chagzuki]

I find myself often liking HD Cart, so that seems to fill the Lexicon role for me.

[jtsterays]

I find myself often liking HD Cart, so that seems to fill the Lexicon role for me.

Oh yea forgot about that, I haven't demod it.

[nusound mind]

They sound identical. You can import CR presets into CRP, they're that identical.

So, ask yourself if the added ducking/gating and surround functions are worth the extra 130 bucks.

Wasn't the case to me when I originally tested CR against CR-Pro. In fact it was that test which made me buy CR-Pro, b/c (to *my* ears mind you, I didn't have an analyzer comparing the minutia of respective waveforms to see how identically they superimpose or not) CR-Pro sounded better. It also has all the additional controls mentioned earlier by someone in this thread. Which may account as to why they sounded different (to me).

idk how I managed to make it so I quoted myself there haha nevertheless