Reason 13 Announced- Sequencer updated!

[crimsonwarlock]

Ok, but first you show me polyphonic and audio-rate modulation .

You are evading

The discussion we had wasn't about poly-CV or audio-rate mod (you brought those in instead of reacting to the challenge at hand). You stated that Bitwig is more modular than Reason... now prove it

The thing is, I actually looked at Bitwig as an alternative for Reason (during the R13 release debacle), and looked into the possibilities of setting up monitor-management like I have in Reason (essential for me, as I don't want to buy a hardware controller for it). It didn't come close, and would be pretty messy with several mixer channels doing stuff that should be outside the mixer. After 10 years of using Reaper (including writing my own scripts and such), I know that even Reaper with all its crazy options and functionality, can't do it. I also looked at Digital Performer, which can kind of do it outside the mixer, but basically by using a different kind of mixer (funny enough, they call those racks) and it is still messy and cumbersome to setup and manage.

For anyone interested, this is how my empty template looks in Reason:

tardis.png

[crimsonwarlock]

This is quite entertaining.

I certainly hope so

[Jac459]

Ok, but first you show me polyphonic and audio-rate modulation .

You are evading

The discussion we had wasn't about poly-CV or audio-rate mod (you brought those in instead of reacting to the challenge at hand). You stated that Bitwig is more modular than Reason... now prove it

The thing is, I actually looked at Bitwig as an alternative for Reason (during the R13 release debacle), and looked into the possibilities of setting up monitor-management like I have in Reason (essential for me, as I don't want to buy a hardware controller for it). It didn't come close, and would be pretty messy with several mixer channels doing stuff that should be outside the mixer. After 10 years of using Reaper (including writing my own scripts and such), I know that even Reaper with all its crazy options and functionality, can't do it. I also looked at Digital Performer, which can kind of do it outside the mixer, but basically by using a different kind of mixer (funny enough, they call those racks) and it is still messy and cumbersome to setup and manage.

For anyone interested, this is how my empty template looks in Reason:


tardis.png

Actually if you don't think that connecting modules together in a polyphonic way is crucial for a modular system, I think we can stop the discussion here... You are missing the point totally...

You seems to think that a system is modular because you have flexible routing possibilities. It is just a small aspect aspect of it.

You should get interested on where the industry is going with innovations like the CLAP format.
It is all about interconnecting systems in ... a modular way.

[crimsonwarlock]

You seems to think that a system is modular because you have flexible routing possibilities.

No, I think a system is modular because it consists of modules. It is factually what that word means

So you are right. This discussion has run its course.

[liquidsound]

This is quite entertaining.

I certainly hope so

Not only but also educational (from the Reason side for sure )

[liquidsound]

You seems to think that a system is modular because you have flexible routing possibilities.

No, I think a system is modular because it consists of modules. It is factually what that word means

So you are right. This discussion has run its course.

Indeed. The Modules in Reason are more independent than Bitwig or other DAWs.
For example, the Mixer channels can be rearranged in any order without effecting the Sequencer or Rack structure and vice versa.

The Modules in the Reason Rack can be moved around without effecting their respective routing: Try that in Bitwig rack and the whole signal chain is affected.

That's quite Modular...

[Jac459]

You seems to think that a system is modular because you have flexible routing possibilities.

No, I think a system is modular because it consists of modules. It is factually what that word means

So you are right. This discussion has run its course.

That's true for a simple modular system.

For an advanced one, the capacity of the modules to interact together matters (polyphonically, at audiorate or not).

Anyway, either you already realised you were wrong but don't want to admit, either you will probably never get it.

I an out too.

[liquidsound]

I an out too.

"I an" out... all those cables talking are messing up with your keyboard skills

[SLiC]

VCV Rack (16 channels of voltage) and Bitwig can have polyphonic modulators, my hardware modular can't but that's what I enjoy the most, more than enough complexity for me!

Bitwig has many possibilities with poly and audio rate etc, but I have never heard anything close to the quality of a Reason patch in Bitwig...Reason just has better instruments/building blocks (modules!) irrespective of how they are connected.

[Jac459]

VCV Rack (16 channels of voltage) and Bitwig can have polyphonic modulators, my hardware modular can't but that's what I enjoy the most, more than enough complexity for me!

Bitwig has many possibilities with poly and audio rate etc, but I have never heard anything close to the quality of a Reason patch in Bitwig...Reason just has better instruments/building blocks (modules!) irrespective of how they are connected.

That is quite subjective... But I generally fully agree.

The only instrument that is vastly superior in Bitwig (even mimic) is the sampler.

But if I was able to connect a Grain and an Europa with a pulsar and a synchronous together, to create one (polyphonic) instrument in a combinator, it would be awesome.

But today, like in your hardware modular synth, we can't, it is monophonic. That is sad.

[SLiC]

But today, like in your hardware modular synth, we can't, it is monophonic. That is sad.

Well, it would be nice to do things like that but there are so many more important things missing from Reason (like MPE!) that I have this way down my list! In fact number 1 on my list is Objekt as an MPE synth, even if its just in the RRP!

Also my experience a few mono synths (especially with the new stereo spread tool) go a long way in a mix...even further with chord player and Duel Arp powering them!

[Jac459]

But today, like in your hardware modular synth, we can't, it is monophonic. That is sad.

Well, it would be nice to do things like that but there are so many more important things missing from Reason (like MPE!) that I have this way down my list! In fact number 1 on my list is Objekt as an MPE synth, even if its just in the RRP!

Also my experience a few mono synths (especially with the new stereo spread tool) go a long way in a mix...even further with chord player and Duel Arp powering them!

Well again.... I agree with you.

Actually I wish the best for Reason and if they were able to add an MPE support to their standalone version and more importantly to their rack while making a free naked version, I really feel they'll make good money.

[xbitz]

Modulating the voice stack can lead to surprisingly interesting outcomes, so it's worth experimenting with.

13:35 >

[crimsonwarlock]

Anyway, either you already realised you were wrong but don't want to admit, either you will probably never get it.

You can frame this any way you want, the dictionary still disagrees with you

And by the dictionary definition, Reason is still more modular than Bitwig

[xbitz]

Anyway, either you already realised you were wrong but don't want to admit, either you will probably never get it.

You can frame this any way you want, the dictionary still disagrees with you

And by the dictionary definition, Reason is still more modular than Bitwig

but hallo the two kind of tasks are separated in BWS vs Reason, so

Non-Modular Tasks:
When modular solutions are not necessary, Bitwig's workflow can be much faster.

Modular Tasks:
The Grid: If you need a modular system, the Grid is far deeper than Reason's modular solutions, it's a fully-fledged visual programming environment where you can create both simple modules and complex systems. You can freely combine MIDI and audio modulations, which is more limited in Reason etc.

vs Reason
which is also modular in its virtual rack-based philosophy, but it operates more in a "hardware simulation" manner, easy to navigate but is more limited in depth compared to Bitwig's Grid, it is primarily focused on creative routing and effects, while the Grid offers comprehensive synthesis and modulation capabilities.

Basically, in Bitwig, modularity is an option that doesn't come at the expense of workflow, whereas in Reason, everything just feels ridiculously slow to me.