Reason 13 Announced- Sequencer updated!

[EnGee]

I sold Bitwig and I'm very glad that I did now I didn't get enough good musical results with these 'super' features! While in Reason if I want more than the parameter automation in the sequencer or the flip panel, I load Combinator and can go as crazy as I want, but I rarely need it as there are already great synths and instruments which can produce what I want.

The main thing that I missed in Bitwig devices is the sound quality! Also, the drums are horrible! It is like an ugly woman! Bring all the makeup you want, but she still ugly (reminds me of latest games, ugly characters!).

I'm almost sure that making nice music (be it soft or hard) doesn't need 99% of these advanced features in both Bitwig or Reason! Those features are mostly for 'showy' persons I believe! They are useful but rarely used (at least in the music I'm listening to).

[crimsonwarlock]

The Grid: If you need a modular system, the Grid is far deeper than Reason's modular solutions, it's a fully-fledged visual programming environment where you can create both simple modules and complex systems.

And still, no example of a similar solution in Bitwig, like my monitor-station in Reason

Here are the specs:
- routing to two sets of monitors and two different headsets, all with their dedicated correction curves applied.
- Additional crossfeed and room-ambiance for the headphones.
- Option to simulate small speakers and mid/wide field monitoring.
- Option to bypass all the additional stuff, but without losing the correction curves.
- Everything behind a consolidated user interface without all kinds of stuff making a mess of your mixer.
- And finally, embed this into some kind of template that loads whenever you start Bitwig.

Now go build this in Bitwig, and then come back here and show us how it is done

[twal]

Those features are mostly for 'showy' persons I believe! They are useful but rarely used (at least in the music I'm listening to).

I get excited pondering the capabilities of different daws. It's interesting to use/research the different DAWS to find what stands out and it always feels pleasing when looking at DAWs' different architecture and acknowledging the care and perspective that went into implementing said architecture.

With that being said, I feel the same way as you- I simply do not know -- workflow design aside--what all these extra bells and whistles ultimately add up to when it comes to simply creating music. Yes, there are a lot of wacky setups you can do with Bitwig and Reason you could use for some experimental; or perhaps create something different to a degree than what is usually produced; but, as far as pleasing music that makes its way into an audience, I don't find it being extra appealing to implement, when thinking initially. When it comes to making a great tune, most of this stuff is rather not necessary or perhaps very unnecessary for modern music. With that being said, I almost bought your Bitwig. I saw it on the forum for some time..

The Grid: If you need a modular system, the Grid is far deeper than Reason's modular solutions, it's a fully-fledged visual programming environment where you can create both simple modules and complex systems.

Now go build this in Bitwig, and then come back here and show us how it is done

Since you say you have used REAPER for 10 years, and you have extensive knowledge about Reason what does REAPER utilize that other DAWS have a hard time with (I think routing is something substantial)? And to dovetail off the response to Engee, what do you personally like creating using some of Reason's unique qualities? I ask about REAPER because its my primary DAW...

[LaLivre]

I'm almost sure that making nice music (be it soft or hard) doesn't need in both Bitwig or Reason! Those features are mostly for 'showy' persons I believe! They are useful but rarely used (at least in the music I'm listening to).

Yes, you are totally right!

But: You need some of the basic features.

Every componist in every century had/has some orga structure (folders) for his arrangements or the possibility that the componist can make some short notices (markers) that reminds him how the song structure is arranged. Every mixing engineer needs organisation, too. Build groups of instruments, have a structure and management, use dividers, markers, notices. Record scribbles and do comping with midi experiments....play with live loops.

This really basic stuff is requested for ages and is ignored by the manager(s). It is TOTALLY missing and that sucks so much in Reason. Yes, it sucks really hard. Same problem with missing notation... terrible. It is just an unbelievable ignorance of fundamental things that musicans, engineers and componists need. Do you know why they ignore it? No other company ignores their users or customers that hard.

Why they do this?

But hey, they drop 2 new midi players nownobody asked for, which is a slap in the back for every long time musican Reason user.

[Jac459]

Anyway, either you already realised you were wrong but don't want to admit, either you will probably never get it.

You can frame this any way you want, the dictionary still disagrees with you

And by the dictionary definition, Reason is still more modular than Bitwig

Sure, if you are happy, I am happy

[EnGee]

I get excited pondering the capabilities of different daws. It's interesting to use/research the different DAWS to find what stands out and it always feels pleasing when looking at DAWs' different architecture and acknowledging the care and perspective that went into implementing said architecture.

With that being said, I feel the same way as you- I simply do not know -- workflow design aside--what all these extra bells and whistles ultimately add up to when it comes to simply creating music. Yes, there are a lot of wacky setups you can do with Bitwig and Reason you could use for some experimental; or perhaps create something different to a degree than what is usually produced; but, as far as pleasing music that makes its way into an audience, I don't find it being extra appealing to implement, when thinking initially. When it comes to making a great tune, most of this stuff is rather not necessary or perhaps very unnecessary for modern music. With that being said, I almost bought your Bitwig. I saw it on the forum for some time..

One of the reasons that I sold Bitwig is because I no longer use Linux. On Linux it is not easy to find a native DAW like Bitwig! IMO, Bitwig is by far the most pleasant and the easiest to use in Linux (natively). Reaper is a great option also on Linux.

When I returned to Windows/Mac, I felt there are much better DAWs for me! I have now Live, Reason, Cubase and Reaper installed on Windows while Logic, Live and Reason on Mac. I'm mostly between Live and Reason these days and I wish they didn't kill ReWire! It was a very nice workflow. Starting in Reason then finishing on Cubase or Live. I'm trying to find a workflow like that but I don't think it is possible.

[crimsonwarlock]

Since you say you have used REAPER for 10 years, and you have extensive knowledge about Reason what does REAPER utilize that other DAWS have a hard time with (I think routing is something substantial)? And to dovetail off the response to Engee, what do you personally like creating using some of Reason's unique qualities? I ask about REAPER because its my primary DAW...

I moved to Reaper because of its crazy level of workflow tweakability, but in the end that was also why I moved away from it. Reaper has incredible functionality, but that has turned into a total mess (for me) of popup windows and multi-level right-click menus. At first, I enjoyed tuning workflows to my wishes, but over time the tuning and tweaking got in the way of actually making music. Reaper's biggest strength is its customizability, but that is also its biggest flaw. I still think Reaper is a great DAW, and I totally understand why people use it. The same goes for most other DAWs as well.

Going from there, Reason's biggest strength for me is its simplicity. There is basically one way to do things, and that is by connecting things. The backside of the rack is Reason's substitute for a whole bunch of popup-windows and configuration options in other DAWs. It may seem limiting at first, but it is actually very powerful when you commit to that paradigm. And committing to that paradigm comes naturally for old farts like myself, who grew up with hardware studios and loads of real cables, where the only way do get things done was by connecting things together.

The other thing Reason has, that I didn't find in other DAWs (although Digital Performer comes close), is the Blocks arrangement system. DAWs like Reaper move things around in the sequencer window for arranging, or have tricks to play sequencer regions in different orders. Other DAWs, like Live, let you arrange parts and export/move that arrangement to the sequencer. Reason Blocks is completely different: The Blocks are a separate layer behind the sequencer and are constantly editable without changing stuff in the sequencer, and you do things in the sequencer on top of the blocks without changing the actual blocks. It is the most flexible arrangement (and composing) environment I've seen (and used) so far. If you want to see how this works, lookup Adam Fielding on YT, he has many livestreams archived there where he does live composing using Blocks.

[crimsonwarlock]

Starting in Reason then finishing on Cubase or Live. I'm trying to find a workflow like that but I don't think it is possible.

I use separate projects (in Reason) for composing/tracking/arranging and for mixing. After composing and arranging I export all tracks to audio and load those into a new project for mixing. I could easily load those in Reaper (I still have it installed) and mix it there. Maybe this is an option for you (using Cubase or Live).

For me, mixing in Reaper doesn't have any benefits over Reason, and I like to mix on the emulated SSL-desk in Reason

[kae]

Whether I make the track in Live or Reason I export the stems and import into Pro Tools, but could just as well use Reaper. For me, they both have a better overview in the mixer and arranger views. All inserts & sends are directly accessible across all channels in both views.

[twal]

Since you say you have used REAPER for 10 years, and you have extensive knowledge about Reason what does REAPER utilize that other DAWS have a hard time with (I think routing is something substantial)? And to dovetail off the response to Engee, what do you personally like creating using some of Reason's unique qualities? I ask about REAPER because its my primary DAW...

I moved to Reaper because of its crazy level of workflow tweakability, but in the end that was also why I moved away from it. Reaper has incredible functionality, but that has turned into a total mess (for me) of popup windows and multi-level right-click menus. At first, I enjoyed tuning workflows to my wishes, but over time the tuning and tweaking got in the way of actually making music. Reaper's biggest strength is its customizability, but that is also its biggest flaw. I still think Reaper is a great DAW, and I totally understand why people use it. The same goes for most other DAWs as well.

Going from there, Reason's biggest strength for me is its simplicity. There is basically one way to do things, and that is by connecting things. The backside of the rack is Reason's substitute for a whole bunch of popup-windows and configuration options in other DAWs. It may seem limiting at first, but it is actually very powerful when you commit to that paradigm. And committing to that paradigm comes naturally for old farts like myself, who grew up with hardware studios and loads of real cables, where the only way do get things done was by connecting things together.

The other thing Reason has, that I didn't find in other DAWs (although Digital Performer comes close), is the Blocks arrangement system. DAWs like Reaper move things around in the sequencer window for arranging, or have tricks to play sequencer regions in different orders. Other DAWs, like Live, let you arrange parts and export/move that arrangement to the sequencer. Reason Blocks is completely different: The Blocks are a separate layer behind the sequencer and are constantly editable without changing stuff in the sequencer, and you do things in the sequencer on top of the blocks without changing the actual blocks. It is the most flexible arrangement (and composing) environment I've seen (and used) so far. If you want to see how this works, lookup Adam Fielding on YT, he has many livestreams archived there where he does live composing using Blocks.

Thanks I appreciate your reply. I find that working with REAPER it can be easy to get wrapped up in customizability but I do it when I am excited and it doesn't get in the way of making music. With the many popup windows I have I created a custom action that closes all fx windows, returns me to the start of the timeline, and opens up the Master Mixer fx window- something someone out there might be interested in making.

Yeah, what actually segued me well into REAPER was using Reason first, because I moved from an old copy of Reason into REAPER with an old copy of FL in between, while originally using Cubase and Cakewalk sequencer. If I had new copies of Reason/FL I might of stuck with them. But really fell in with REAPER while watching Kenny's videos..

Blocks sounds interesting I'll have to take a look...

[crimsonwarlock]

But really fell in with REAPER while watching Kenny's videos..

Kenny is definitely one of the strong points of Reaper

Blocks sounds interesting I'll have to take a look...

Watch out, you might get inspired. Happened to me

[dark water]

I bought Reason 3 then Reason 4 (plus Recycle, Record, several add-ons such as Jason McGerr's drum library and a shedload of unofficial third-party Reason libraries, such as Planet of the Breaks etc) MANY moons ago.

Reason 13 is the first version during the past 15-20 years which has got me tempted to update, as there seems to have been a number of problems reported in forums with previous versions which don't seem to be so much the case with this version?

In a nutshell, do you Reason-owning contributors to this thread find that the (updated) Reason 13 is a lot better, problem-free and enjoyable than previous versions, or is it still dogged with the same sort of annoyances that previous versions were reported to suffer?

[EnGee]

In a nutshell, do you Reason-owning contributors to this thread find that the (updated) Reason 13 is a lot better, problem-free and enjoyable than previous versions, or is it still dogged with the same sort of annoyances that previous versions were reported to suffer?

I wasn't into updating (from v12), but to be honest the discount was hard to resist (I think it was $71 from JRR Shop including another automatic discount!). However, I was surprised that I like v13 much more than previous versions. The main points related to the workflow are:
1. The new organized tabs access is better.
2. Browser is better.
3. Additional Piano Roll/audio window beneath the arrangement.
4. The tools window is integrated with the piano roll.

Of course I love the new synth (Polytone). I still haven't checked the new delay though!!

Still two or more negatives for me. The windows/tabs are more in the way with 1080p resolution. More than this resolution (on my 4k 32" monitor) and the devices look small. No ReWire also means I might use Reason just as a plugin because I prefer Live, Cubase or Logic as my main DAW. But I will see if I like doing it all in Reason only.

So, overall, I'm very satisfied with the upgrade

[SLiC]

It is a good upgrade at 13.1 (love random) at 70 bucks, no complaints at that price. I’m actually getting back in to Reason…was always a fan of RRP but I find myself actually using the DAW more now…it gets the job done.

[dark water]

^^ Many thanks EnGee and SLiC for the helpful replies (and also the insights about the Rewire / DAW situation).

Thanks also for the heads-up about JRR's additional discount, which I'll also buy now for $71.

Cheers