Deep reverb without stardust tail?

[irpacynot]

Not sure how to better describe it, but I'm trying to get a reverb that is deep (like I'm far away, or in a chamber) without that noisy tail. I've tried to use reverbs for years, but never got very good with it. I really like the Valhalla because of its light demand on the CPU of my old computer. But almost all of its "large" reverbs have that noisy tail -- kinda sounds like residual dust or something -- I don't know how to describe it. Is there a parameter of the plugin that could reduce that without reducing the depth of the reverb itself?

Thanks

[Songwriter101]

Did you try to cut a lot of high end? I listened to reverb IR and realized a reverb has to be dark. Put the high cut down at 1500Hz or 2000Hz, or take the the high end multiplyer down to 0.10 at 2500Hz. This helped me to get closer to the reverbs impulse responses that I like.

Get reverb impulse responses and compare them with your Valhalla settings to get a better feel for algorithmic reverbs. It helped me a lot fast!

[avid_d]

Have you tried reducing the modulation to zero and starting from there. Usually, a bit of pitch modulation is wanted to make the reverb sound less flat, but cut it to zero and see what you make of that. Then, as mentioned above, cut back on the high frequencies and see where that is taking you.

[Songwriter101]

Have you tried reducing the modulation to zero and starting from there. Usually, a bit of pitch modulation is wanted to make the reverb sound less flat, but cut it to zero and see what you make of that. Then, as mentioned above, cut back on the high frequencies and see where that is taking you.

That's a good one.

[irpacynot]

Thank you both for the replies. That definitely makes sense, to cut out some of the high end on the return track. I was only focused on cutting out the extreme lows, but hadn't really given the other any thought.

However, can you explain to me what you mean with regard to reducing the modulation?

Thanks

[avid_d]

How modulation works within a reverb will depend upon the reverb being used.

Under the hood, a reverb plugin wll usually have one or more LFOs operating to cause slight fluctuations in elements such as the delay times or pitch - these can be used to help smooth out the sound, or create a sort of chorusing effect to make the tail more "lively", or create a slight shimmer.

I don't use Valhalla but I know from their documentation that they have quite a lot of modulation going on depending upon which preset/style one is using. My suggestion was to remove the modulation (set mod rate and depth to zero - assuming both options are available) and listen to what that does to the sound. From that point on, it is a matter of gradually changing the speed rate and depth amount in the hope that you will get to something in the tail that you like listening to.

Oh, you will almost certainly find a much better explanation on the Valhalla website or elsewhere on the web.

[mjolnir]

although it doesn't work for all instruments, in synths a clearer reverb can be obtained by using the Release of the ADSR at first to lengthen the sound, then use some (not too much) reverb after that. Also, perhaps certain convolution reverbs are cleaner.

[irpacynot]

How modulation works within a reverb will depend upon the reverb being used.

Under the hood, a reverb plugin wll usually have one or more LFOs operating to cause slight fluctuations in elements such as the delay times or pitch - these can be used to help smooth out the sound, or create a sort of chorusing effect to make the tail more "lively", or create a slight shimmer.

I don't use Valhalla but I know from their documentation that they have quite a lot of modulation going on depending upon which preset/style one is using. My suggestion was to remove the modulation (set mod rate and depth to zero - assuming both options are available) and listen to what that does to the sound. From that point on, it is a matter of gradually changing the speed rate and depth amount in the hope that you will get to something in the tail that you like listening to.

Oh, you will almost certainly find a much better explanation on the Valhalla website or elsewhere on the web.

That's awesome, thank you again.

The Valhalla doesn't go all the way to 0 hz, but it does go down to .01 on the mod dial, and it definitely seems to tame it good bit. Also tried the advice of throwing an instance of Nova EQ on the return track before the reverb and brought the LP down to 2000khz. I think that's the true option that helped the most. A nice fat reverb sound without that tail.

Thank you, folks!

[rj0]

My sense is that modulation in reverbs is utilized (in part) to remedy the real world complication of airflow in real environments (mildly affecting reverberation). Air flow movement (and variant temperatures) is happening in real spaces, causing constant subtle changes in reverberation, even if we are not particularly conscious of it. A static reverb (including IRs) doesn't adequately capture that aspect of real world rooms/environments, so a touch of dynamics is introduced.

[CrystalWizard]

How modulation works within a reverb will depend upon the reverb being used.
...
Oh, you will almost certainly find a much better explanation on the Valhalla website or elsewhere on the web.

That's awesome, thank you again.

The Valhalla doesn't go all the way to 0 hz, but it does go down to .01 on the mod dial, and it definitely seems to tame it good bit. Also tried the advice of throwing an instance of Nova EQ on the return track before the reverb and brought the LP down to 2000khz. I think that's the true option that helped the most. A nice fat reverb sound without that tail.

Thank you, folks!

That is the modulation Rate that goes to .01 Hz. You want to adjust the modulation Depth to zero to re move all modulation.

[rj0]

My sense is that modulation in reverbs is utilized (in part) to remedy the real world complication of airflow in real environments (mildly affecting reverberation). Air flow movement (and variant temperatures) is happening in real spaces, causing constant subtle changes in reverberation, even if we are not particularly conscious of it. A static reverb (including IRs) doesn't adequately capture that aspect of real world rooms/environments, so a touch of dynamics is introduced.

Think also of many warm bodies in a space (say a cathedral) that are always in a slight state of movement, affecting the absorptive qualities (plus warmth, etc.), and thus the reverb, of a space.

[cryophonik]

Captain Obvious here, but the source material has a lot to do with the reverb sound. What are you feeding into the reverb? Maybe you need to start there and reduce unwanted frequencies at the source.

[irpacynot]

That is the modulation Rate that goes to .01 Hz. You want to adjust the modulation Depth to zero to re move all modulation.

Thank you for the clarification. I'll give that a try.

Captain Obvious here, but the source material has a lot to do with the reverb sound. What are you feeding into the reverb? Maybe you need to start there and reduce unwanted frequencies at the source.

Acoustic guitars and vocals.

[mjolnir]

I think a lot can change with external EQ on the reverb. I used to do that when I had hardware reverbs and also back before I used REAPER, and that helped a lot. I think that might help your tails. Also, you could use a noise gate and that would give tons of control.

Last but not least, maybe look for "early reflections" algorithms instead of ordinary reverb.
Those most definately don't have the extended tail, but still give a sense of "live" acoustics.

[cryophonik]

Acoustic guitars and vocals.

The initial attack/pluck and any pick noises or fret squeaks from the guitar and sibilance (“tch” or “tss” sounds), lip smacks, tongue clicks, etc. in the vocal recording can really exacerbate the sparkliness in the reverb tail.