Looking for a mixer for analog synth setup (performance in studio)

[tlr]

Not sure if we are talking mixers here, but I'll give it a go:
I'm looking for a mixer for my analog synth setup and wonder if anyone could share their experiences?

The idea is to use it for "performance" (in the studio), live twiddling sends, mutes, perhaps EQ and such.
I have experience with this in the past using a Behringer MX8000. Featurewise that was complete gold, but it was noisy and had crosstalk issues. It was also very large.

What I have is a bunch of mono synths, a few polys, an RD-8 and RD-9 which I suppose I would want to have 4-5 channels separate from when I use them. I also want effect returns on channel strips to be able to feed that back into auxes.
Patching up the mixer via a patch bay for the current project is acceptable.

I tried to condense what I am looking for:

• 12-16 channels
• 1-2 mic pre's / instrument inputs would be good
• minimum 4 aux sends
• main + 1-2 stereo groups
• channel inserts, at least on some channels
• direct outs, at least on some channels (or alternatively USB record/playback at preferably up to 96k)
• direct access to a large chunk of the channel strips at once (some digital mixers make this tricky)

The ones I've considered closest so far are:

• Mackie 1642VLZ4
• Mackie 1604VLZ4
• Mackie ProFX16v3
• Allen&Heath MixWizard WZ 14:4:2 <- expensive!
• Tascam Model 2400 <- also expensive, but has built in audio interface.

The first two Mackie's are classic, would probably fit well. The EQs are pretty basic, and at least the 1604 seems to have quite a tight spacing between the sliders. Hard to use?
The ProFX I don't know much about, is that on par with the 1642/1604 sound quality-wise, noise?

The MixWizard seems to be an almost perfect fit, except the price tag is high. I would still need to add a multi channel audio interface to the setup.

The Tascam Model 2400 looks good too, but the audio interface only does 48k. I've also read that some people had quality issues with the tascams. I don't know if that is true or not.

Any recommendations?

[tlr]

Also found the Behringer X2442USB / Behringer QX2442USB which seems to be more or less straight copies of the Mackie 1642VLZ4 for cheap (albeit with some built in effects). Any good?

[kritikon]

I can answer some of those questions, as I bought a mixer this year for similar reasons and was looking at the same options. I ended up with the Behringer QX2442USB. I would have happily spent more, and if I was recording through the mixer I almost definitely would have - likely the Tascam or a larger A&H

Firstly, the Behringers are still noisier than I'd like (channels and crosstalk, no denying it), not what I'd expect from posher mixers I was used to back in the day, BUT they give huge bang for buck. You're not going to get as many channels, direct outs, groups and even quite useable compressors on anything else for that price. They even give you a full set of properly routable sends and frankly the competition is poor for that, though the Mackies do give you 4 aux. TBH I dislike some of these aux being basically hardwired for control room though - you have to watch out for that. Feature-wise they're literally streaks ahead and nobody can touch them. You have to go considerably higher price to get midsized mixers that give a full enough set of features...I found most of the mixers in that price range either lacked enough sends, or missed out on direct outs/inserts, or missed something useful compared to the Behringer or just cost twice the price. Even little things like only having XLR main outs - can't remember but don't the Mackies only have XLR? Not useful for me. The onboard FX are surprisingly good too. I don't record them, but it's actually turned out to be a very useful bonus I didn't think I'd use or need. I got the one with the Klark Tekniks FX and it really did impress me, especially for that price and the compressors are another one I didn't think I needed but do get good use. I have a couple of hw ones that I'll use for special circumstances but the onboard comps aren't just bells 'n'whistles, they're useful. Form memory, is it Soundcraft that have onboard Lexicon FX? But the more recent Lexicon FX aren't a patch on old ones, and Soundcraft suffer from the same price hike for sufficient features/channels.

I use mine as a scratch pad, sometimes even getting quite far down the mixing road, but it's all set up through a patchbay and I record direct into my interface, not the mixer, so the mixer noise is not an issue. It's not noticeably loud anyway, just too high for recording and you can hear it if you're compressing etc. If I were to record through the mixer I would probably have gone for that Tascam or maybe a larger A&H, possibly a Studiomaster. The Tascams appeal for the interface recording - proper multitrack too whereas most of the others are 2-channel only. Not 96kHz from memory, though 48kHz would keep me happy. Having USB recording is an option, but not one I actually use, so in hindsight I didn't need that at all. I remember talking to someone on here that did have some issue with a Tascam, can't remember what, think it was the sliders or preamps? I thought the Mackies were too expensive for too few features in general - they make some mixers that fit the bill like the ones you linked but man they charge for them, and the smaller mid-sized just don't give enough sends or channels for me. A & H was definitely considered and I think their Eqs are better than the others, but I don't tend to use mixer Eq that much. Yamaha actually make some mixers that appealed which I had a serious look at. Soundcraft are worth checking out but again...price. I think I'd rather have a Soundcraft than Mackie just because Mackies are...just a bit dull and ordinary TBH (though there's a good argument for mixers being dull and ordinary so they don't get in the way of the mix I suppose).

It sounds like you're not going to record direct from your mixer, in which case the Behringer is hard to beat. It has the most channels, inserts, direct outs, and groups, with bonus great FX and compressors on main channels. The Mackies are good for aux, though the one with 6 aux - double check they're ALL fully useable, I suspect 2 might not be properly flexible for you and only designed for control room. BUT, if there's any chance you're going to use it for recording, then I'd say spend more and get one of the Mackies, as the Behringer's too noisy. Can't avoid that fact. I spent ages dithering around and then mulling over what I'd bought, thinking I should have doubled my budget and got a quality recording mixer instead. 6 months in and I now don't regret buying the Behringer at all. I prefer patchbays etc and that makes direct recording easy. Whichever mixer I bought would have had some limitations for direct recording, though that Tascam 2400 came mighty close, as you can get rid of an interface and truly multitrack. Behringer will do all that you want and specifically for routing FX, dubbing up delays etc then it's perfect. Mackies work for that but check how you can route them. If you return aux to 2 main channels for feedback possibilities etc, then you need as many channels as you can get, and Behringer win that one. It's worst in terms of noise, but for a scratch pad does that even matter? For Eq, the A&H wins out hands down for me. I always found Mackie a bit bland and don't like them, the Tascams are usable somewhere in the middle, Behringer are really quite meh - wide and woolly and haven't improved over the years IMO, just as well I don't use Eq much.

Other options are digital mixers. I considered, but I just don't like the sheer depth of menu diving on any digital mixer. Not easy, not quick, not intuitive and definitely not as hands-on but cost way more. But they have benefits, and by the way, the new Behringer digitals have a really good rep apparently. I don't think digital fits with what you stated though.

Another aside - Behringer patchbays are great value too. Balanced, easy 3-button routing and quiet. I had expensive old patchbays that I had to replace and they had that ridiculous thing where if you want to change the routing you have to physically takeout the upper or lower jacks and turn them around, depending on what type of normalling you need. Some Behringer basic equipment is not only cheap but solid, reliable and quality. The mixers are solid, reliable and feature-packed but not what you would call quality enough.

[tlr]

Thanks for the lengthy write up! Sorry for not reacting, it turns up it became Christmas and such.

I was kind of frustrated with the options so I did a search for used mixers, remembering that larger ones might go for cheap. Amids the larger ones there were a couple of Mackie Onyx 1640i's not costing too much. One was in my immediate neighborhood so I ended up getting it for $300. Seems to have had little use. No scratchy pots whatsoever.

Features:

• 16 channels
• 16 mic pre's with indepedent 48V phantom power
• 2 channels can be instrument inputs
• inserts on all channels
• parametric EQ with two sweeps, and bypass
• 6 full aux sends
• main + 2 stereo groups
• direct out on all channels
• firewire 16 in / 16 out, however I don't have high hopes of getting that running with a modern PC

Basically that ticks all the boxes I had, and then some! It was also cheaper than getting a new QX2442USB.

[kritikon]

That's a good deal, well found . 2nd hand makes a lot of sense for things like mixers.

[tlr]

Having looked quite a bit more at this, it is for me more or less the ultimate DAW-less setup! It's a shame they don't produce any mixers of this magnitude any longer. Featurewise it's even better than the A&H MixWizard 14:4:2. The current Mackie Onyx line seems pretty crippled compared to this.

If only there was an USB retrofit to it... It should in theory be possible to retro fit channel "tape"-returns as there is handling of balanced audio from the FW-card section internally (Service manual). A lot of work and not sure where to physically put those connectors though. Will settle for patching the returns in to inputs when needed.

[counterparty]

As a suggestion that admittedly doesn't meet most of your requirements but might be worth considering: the last 2 you listed there are getting towards the kind of price you could get a second-hand decent quality summing mixer. Something like a Rupert Neve 5057 Orbit, or a Phoenix Nicerizer if you wanted something with channel level controls etc. Many fewer knobs to twiddle, but the sound quality would be there!

[tlr]

Those seems nice but not what I'm looking for. I've got that Mackie Onyx 1640i now, it's perfect!

[Laser1234]

I've always used Yammie mixers, had about 6 of them in various sizes. Generally pretty good, balanced range of features.