HALion 7

[bmanic]

Like some hardware does ?
I think I read a couple of time from some dev, it isn't possible with vst3.
The midi data to drive another vsti, yes but not writing every note in a midi clip

I mean just sending out the MIDI data in real time, as I play, from the FlexPhraser. It's definitely not a VST3i limitation as many other synths can do just this. UVI Falcon for instance, Maschine as a plugin, FL Studio as a plugin, MPC as a plugin, Reaktor etc. etc. Too many examples to mention them all.

I was hoping I could find the syntax in their LUA script help page but found nothing. Guess it just isn't implemented. It's a bit of a shame as the FlexPhraser is some serious bit of kit! I really like how flexible it can be in the way key selection works. You can quite easily end up in some pseudo-generative territory with great control when stacking a few of these together.

[billcarroll]

Like some hardware does ?
I think I read a couple of time from some dev, it isn't possible with vst3.
The midi data to drive another vsti, yes but not writing every note in a midi clip

I mean just sending out the MIDI data in real time, as I play, from the FlexPhraser. It's definitely not a VST3i limitation as many other synths can do just this. UVI Falcon for instance, Maschine as a plugin, FL Studio as a plugin, MPC as a plugin, Reaktor etc. etc. Too many examples to mention them all.

I was hoping I could find the syntax in their LUA script help page but found nothing. Guess it just isn't implemented. It's a bit of a shame as the FlexPhraser is some serious bit of kit! I really like how flexible it can be in the way key selection works. You can quite easily end up in some pseudo-generative territory with great control when stacking a few of these together.

Looks like it's not possible yet, based on a number of posts in the Steinberg forums.

The only way, which I'm sure you have already read in the manual:
https://www.steinberg.help/r/halion/7.0 ... put_t.html

[IvyBirds]

Like some hardware does ?
I think I read a couple of time from some dev, it isn't possible with vst3.
The midi data to drive another vsti, yes but not writing every note in a midi clip

I mean just sending out the MIDI data in real time, as I play, from the FlexPhraser. It's definitely not a VST3i limitation as many other synths can do just this. UVI Falcon for instance, Maschine as a plugin, FL Studio as a plugin, MPC as a plugin, Reaktor etc. etc. Too many examples to mention them all.

I was hoping I could find the syntax in their LUA script help page but found nothing. Guess it just isn't implemented. It's a bit of a shame as the FlexPhraser is some serious bit of kit! I really like how flexible it can be in the way key selection works. You can quite easily end up in some pseudo-generative territory with great control when stacking a few of these together.

Not sure what is the issue here

The phrases played by the FlexPhraser depend on the notes that are played and can therefore not be exported directly. However, it is possible to generate exportable phrases by recording the MIDI output of the FlexPhraser.

Procedure
Click Record FlexPhraser MIDI Output.
The arrow in the Drag MIDI field starts blinking to indicate record mode.


Play some notes.
When you are done, click Record FlexPhraser MIDI Output again.
Recording stops. In the Drag MIDI field, the arrow remains lit to indicate that a MIDI phrase can be exported.

Click the Drag MIDI field and drag the phrase on a MIDI track in your host sequencer application.

You then have a MIDI file that can drive anything

If you want to use this for live play use one of the thousands of presets inside of HALion7 or roll your own using one of the myriad of synth engines

It's really not a limitation

For even more fun use Harmony Bloom to take incoming MIDI generate a bunch of notes and then send that to FlexPhraser in HALion7

[bmanic]

Key words being: I need the FlexPhraser output available within the LUA script environment. I had a nice little idea for a pseudo generative thing but never mind. Ain't happening as it isn't possible. I may try to build it in Reaktor instead but that's a lot of extra work just to clone the interesting parts of FlexPhraser.. so probably not happening either.

[L.B.]

Halion reminds me of a restaurant where the cuisine is of a high standard in every discipline. Unfortunately, visitors still don't feel welcome. The waiter is unfriendly, the first-class wine is served incorrectly chilled and the chef snaps at the gourmets at the tables during his visits instead of talking to them in a friendly manner.

Unfortunately, this is a hopeless case, which is a great pity considering the potential.

This begs the question: intent or pure incompetence?

Halion's user interface is a bloody mess.

[kritikon]

Yeah, I only use the Halion that comes with Cubase but agree the GUI and whole structure let's it down. I always think it's got huge potential, loads of power, often end up with some great sounds, but never quite get exactly what I want. I end up going backwards & forwards between pages, can never find the crucial parameter that's going to make the sound perfect, even though I know the f**ker is in there somewhere but just can't find it. Even accessing the FX page is not intuitive, loading up different synth engines and patches seems more awkward than it should. I can make patches in almost any other synth several times quicker than in Halion. It's exasperating precisely because it's good, but hides it's goodness too well. I'd use it a lot more if it wasn't so awkward.

[IvyBirds]

Halion reminds me of a restaurant where the cuisine is of a high standard in every discipline. Unfortunately, visitors still don't feel welcome. The waiter is unfriendly, the first-class wine is served incorrectly chilled and the chef snaps at the gourmets at the tables during his visits instead of talking to them in a friendly manner.

Unfortunately, this is a hopeless case, which is a great pity considering the potential.

This begs the question: intent or pure incompetence?

Halion's user interface is a bloody mess.

HALion7 like UVI Falcon is very deep and very powerful, like all such multi Synth engine plugins

If you want to see a bloody mess check out Falcon

HALion7 is highly customizable, and rather logical it just takes time to actually learn it

But that either gels with your personal workflow or doesn't

[mothra]

Sit down with it for an hour or so, learn how to configure the interface to your liking, start saving your own custom Window sets. I've even got one that focuses solely on the browser so I can do a Media Bay tagging session if I need to outside of Cubase.

[IvyBirds]

Sit down with it for an hour or so, learn how to configure the interface to your liking, start saving your own custom Window sets. I've even got one that focuses solely on the browser so I can do a Media Bay tagging session if I need to outside of Cubase.

I think that's what people fail to grasp about HALion

It's just so customizable

[kritikon]

Depending how you look at it, that can be a pro or a con. So, the GUI is so disorganized that you need to do the work the developers should have done and reorganize it something more useful? I just don't have the time or inclination for that, as don't many others. For me, there's a point beyond which stuffing too much of everything in actually gets in the way of usefulness. I don't want any musical tool to do absolutely everything, because it becomes so cumbersome. I don't have deadlines etc (so it should matter less) but I do have a life to live and making music to enjoy. Enjoyment is the whole raison d'etre for me doing music, so tools that suck that joy out of it end up going only one way generally.

[bmanic]

It's unfortunate that quite a few of these "do it all" mega sampler/synths have so poor UI. UVI Falcon is absolutely no better than Halion, in some cases it's even worse (requires many more clicks doing extremely basic things).

In Halion's defense, it's quite capable and definitely requires a lot fewer clicks than some of the competition in certain areas (especially in sample editing/assignment). Another good part is the actual presets and overall sound quality is superb, in my opinion.

However, it's got the typical Steinberg "feels like everything is held together by virtual duct tape" flaw. It's just flimsy, not very well thought out, and barely works (meaning you encounter strange bugs and glitches almost constantly).

It's unfortunate that the built in LUA scripting is missing some super obvious features (like accessing and outputting a bunch of data from the built in modules). Again, not very well thought out, barely working and just straight up weird. I'm not surprised though. It's been Steinbergs operating modus for over a decade. One of the reasons I never went the Cubase route back in the day.

[IvyBirds]

Depending how you look at it, that can be a pro or a con. So, the GUI is so disorganized that you need to do the work the developers should have done and reorganize it something more useful? .

The developers already did organize it, that's the default out of the box setup. Which you don't like.

So like good developers they gave you the options to change it to something that fits the way you work

There are many plugins that I love the sound of but hate the interface and you can't change it

[mothra]

Depending how you look at it, that can be a pro or a con. So, the GUI is so disorganized that you need to do the work the developers should have done and reorganize it something more useful? I just don't have the time or inclination for that, as don't many others. For me, there's a point beyond which stuffing too much of everything in actually gets in the way of usefulness. I don't want any musical tool to do absolutely everything, because it becomes so cumbersome. I don't have deadlines etc (so it should matter less) but I do have a life to live and making music to enjoy. Enjoyment is the whole raison d'etre for me doing music, so tools that suck that joy out of it end up going only one way generally.

Get over it and quit being lazy. Life wont end if you sit down and take 2 hours to hash out a layout for the GUI that fits your needs. As IvyBirds already pointed out, the devs organized it into a 'Default' layout. This layout may work great for some folks, but not others. Hence they gave you the opportunity to completely customize it to your own flow..

I highly doubt your workflow is the same as mine, I need certain windows up all the time for my needs, you probably have your own. They gave us the option to make this happen, but like ANYTHING in life, there is no free handout. YOU actually need to put some effort into making it happen. Not everything is handed to you on a platter ready to consume, and not sure where people nowadays got the idea that this is how life works because it just doesnt.

I didnt pick up a trumpet in 1983 and start playing Battle Hymn of the Republic for the school band on day 1. I had to actually put some time in and learn how to use the instrument and play it first, and Halion is exactly the same.

[bmanic]

There are many plugins that I love the sound of but hate the interface and you can't change it

Dude, you are literally implying that simple WINDOW organizing is the same as "changing the UI". What on earth are you smoking?

There is absolutely no way to actually change the UI of Halion. You simply organize a bunch of WINDOWS of different parts of Halion and decide where they are or if they are visible or not. THAT'S IT!

And you call that "changing the UI"? What a load of absolute bollocks.

[bmanic]

Get over it and quit being lazy. Life wont end if you sit down and take 2 hours to hash out a layout for the GUI that fits your needs. As IvyBirds already pointed out, the devs organized it into a 'Default' layout. This layout may work great for some folks, but not others. Hence they gave you the opportunity to completely customize it to your own flow..

I highly doubt your workflow is the same as mine, I need certain windows up all the time for my needs, you probably have your own. They gave us the option to make this happen, but like ANYTHING in life, there is no free handout. YOU actually need to put some effort into making it happen. Not everything is handed to you on a platter ready to consume, and not sure where people nowadays got the idea that this is how life works because it just doesnt.

I didnt pick up a trumpet in 1983 and start playing Battle Hymn of the Republic for the school band on day 1. I had to actually put some time in and learn how to use the instrument and play it first, and Halion is exactly the same.

Same idiotic logic fallacy as IvyBird. You guys really having a hard-on for Mr Steinberg eh?

UI = User Interface
Window organizing ≠ User Interface

The actual interface is how all the pieces actually work and what you can do and how. The knobs, the mouse operation (left click vs right click), the various editors, text fields, browser.. etc. etc.

.. and NONE of that can be changed almost at all. The only things you can actually change in Halion is what is visible. That's it. You can NOT change how things actually operate. You can NOT change the layout of an individual "Editor", aka the stuff inside the window.

So if somebody hates Halions UI, how it OPERATES, they are shit out of luck.