Reason 13.1 Update feature discussion

[crimsonwarlock]

it makes many simple tasks a nightmare to do...

Like what?

[kmonkey]

it makes many simple tasks a nightmare to do...

Like what?

From the top of my mind, trying to paint notes in a Midi clip and then alter their velocity was always insanely PITTA for me when it comes to Reason piano roll editor. Piano roll in Reason is like Windows 3.11

On the other side, I have yet to find any other program that makes routing such a breeze and intuitively easy. I knew how to route in Reason on day one. In Reaper (which I use now and use Reason as a VSTi), or Cubase or Bitwig, or Banana it took me some time to adjust. In Reason some things you understand immediately.

So I guess it's like with everything. A product has pros and cons when compared to a person operating with it, or when compared to another similar product. And that is perfectly fine.

[Trancit]

it makes many simple tasks a nightmare to do...

Like what?

From the top of my mind, trying to paint notes in a Midi clip and then alter their velocity was always insanely PITTA for me when it comes to Reason piano roll editor. Piano roll in Reason is like Windows 3.11

...

Exactly...
PR is No.1 for me...
Second would be the non-existent Groups/Folders in the Sequencer which ruins any general overview for me...
Third would be zooming which is for me completely off...i.e. horizontal zoom with I cannot remember how many modifiers to hold...
Fourth would be the looks for me... if this isn´t Windows 95, I don´t know what...

I didn´t try the latest iterations ... can you meanwhile move selected notes around with the arrow keys like transposing and stuff?? The last I remember is doing it by mouse or with this obscure "Tools" window...

Not to speak from any absent scale highlighting/locking, ghost notes from other clips etc...

Again... I absolutely love their ideas, the usability and layout of their devices...
They really think it completely through before spitting them out... quite a lot of VST developers can take a leave out of their book...
But as genius they are about the Rack, they have totally failed with the sequencer imho...
And I think they came to the same conclusion as they came out with their idea to make a plugin out of the Reason Rack...
It´s a pity though that the Rack plugin cannot host plugins though...

[crimsonwarlock]

From the top of my mind, trying to paint notes in a Midi clip and then alter their velocity was always insanely PITTA for me when it comes to Reason piano roll editor.

R13 has a few little improvements in the note editor. But I never had any problems with editing notes velocity. You either switch to the pencil to create notes AND change velocity, or click in the notes with the pointer tool and use the ALT-key to switch temporarily to the pencil to alter velocity. If you are clicking in notes with the pointer and are not aware of the ALT-key switcher... well, you should have RTFM

Second would be the non-existent Groups/Folders in the Sequencer which ruins any general overview for me...

I can see the attraction of folders, but I never miss them and have always found the folder system in Reaper (acting as a bus) feeling cumbersome. But then again, I grew up musically with hardware mixing desks and those didn't have folders either

Third would be zooming which is for me completely off...i.e. horizontal zoom with I cannot remember how many modifiers to hold...

Key-combinations are a fact of life in every DAW. I hate them with a vengeance, and that is why I use TouchPortal to get around that.

Fourth would be the looks for me... if this isn´t Windows 95, I don´t know what...

I think Reason is one of the better looking DAWs around. But beauty is in the eye... and all that.

can you meanwhile move selected notes around with the arrow keys like transposing and stuff?? The last I remember is doing it by mouse or with this obscure "Tools" window...

That one as actually added in the last update. There are still things missing, though, like note-chase. That does not make Reason unusable to create and produce music, though.

[jens]

it makes many simple tasks a nightmare to do...

Like what?

From the top of my mind, trying to paint notes in a Midi clip and then alter their velocity was always insanely PITTA for me when it comes to Reason piano roll editor. Piano roll in Reason is like Windows 3.11.

FWIW Reason still doesn't even have MIDI loop-recording.

[jens]

I [...] have always found the folder system in Reaper (acting as a bus) feeling cumbersome.

@whoever also doesn't know but has an interest in this:

Folder-tracks being busses in Reaper is completely optional - as is using its routing-matrix, contrary to what the above quoted gentleman keeps claiming.

Oh, and the same rather misinformed person by the way also claimed that Reason would be the only DAW that can send individual tracks to hardware outputs and things like that, which is of course complete nonsense too.

[twal]

You can use vcas, groups, buses or folders in Reaper. Using folders is one of the easiest ways to group in Reaper, and other daws too. Track Manager is very flexible too. These options are some of the nice things in Reaper. But it's all preference. People are going to enjoy what they want to. Crimson (he knows this stuff about Reaper) did the opposite as me, he used Reaper then went to Reason. I came from Reason and went to Reaper and felt no reason (no pun intended) to go back. I personally don't care about the ssl and rack stuff albeit cool, I find too much. Prefer traditional plugin inserts, and I'm not an engineer nor care for it. I'm glad others do. After reading what Reason is missing it wouldn't help me going to Reason unless I was very excited about it and its workflow. Professional producers use Reason and I learned how to mix in Reason from them. It's the first main daw I used besides Cubase which I fired up, and looked at, and didn't know what the hell was going on back in 2001 (my copy was probably a 90's version). People probably not to interested in my musical past but it's fun to talk about. Also enjoy defending Reaper lol and talking daws, learning more and what not- just hope that Reason users get what they want...

[SLiC]

So much for talking about the 13.1 updated. this is the same as the last thread!

[crimsonwarlock]

as is using its routing-matrix, contrary to what the above quoted gentleman keeps claiming.

I didn't say you need to use the routing matrix in Reaper, there are many shortcuts and other ways to route things IN THE ROUTING MATRIXES without actually opening the routing matrix windows. Still, you can only route things in Reaper (and most other DAWs) that are made routable by the developers. Reaper is a very well integrated DAW (that I used for over a decade), but it is NOT a modular environment like Reason is.

Oh, and the same rather misinformed person by the way also claimed that Reason would be the only DAW that can send individual tracks to hardware outputs and things like that, which is of course complete nonsense too.

Yep, I didn't say that either. I said that Reason is the only DAW that can connect arbitrary devices (including VST-plugins) in front of the hardware outputs without even involving the mixer channels.

So I am misinformed (or whatever) and you know it all (despite your statements showing the contrary), so why don't you show us all how you can route something in Reaper without going through any of the routing matrixes, or show us how you can connect the output of a VST-plugin directly to an output of the audio interface in Reaper.

My point is pretty simple: you can route stuff in a fully modular DAW that is not possible in a non-modular DAW. Reason is a modular DAW, Reaper is not. It is THAT simple

[crimsonwarlock]

So much for talking about the 13.1 updated. this is the same as the last thread!

Yep, Reason users are idiots because you can do everything Reason can do in any other DAW but better.

Check

[crimsonwarlock]

Crimson (he knows this stuff about Reaper) did the opposite as me, he used Reaper then went to Reason.

Yep. Reaper is crazy powerful, but there are still things that are better or easier in other DAWs. And if those things are important to the user, those other DAWs are better choices. Reaper was the best choice for me, for more than a decade, until it wasn't. Because I needed things, specifically for composing, that are hard or even impossible in Reaper. That doesn't make it a bad DAW, just a bad choice for me. And let's be honest, Reaper is certainly not the most popular DAW among people that compose for a living. Reaper has other strengths.

I'm not saying that Reason is the best for composing either, but for me, it is

[jens]

Still, you can only route things in Reaper (and most other DAWs) that are made routable by the developers.

Which is exactly the same in Reason (in case you missed it)...

[jens]

show us how you can connect the output of a VST-plugin directly to an output of the audio interface in Reaper.

This is super banal in Reaper so I wonder why you would ever ask... it literally takes 3-4 clicks, depending on whether you also want to go through the main-out or not...

without going through any of the routing matrixes

In the given context that's an arbitrary concept you basically just made up.

A signal-routing "matrix" is a term that is typically used for a certain kind of patching-interface. But what exactly is a is not a "matrix" in regards to signal-routing is a matter of opinion and definition.

I work professionally with all kinds of "matrixes" you most probably have never even heard of, so I'll be as bold as to consider myself more competent in said matter than you. You always pull that lame "I'm so old I come from the hardware world"-card, but I assure you that my hand beats yours with absolute ease.

[hotmitts]

So how's the new 'favourites' now they put it in (not the same as old though?)
I'm still on 12, haven't tried 13

[SebAV]

So much for talking about the 13.1 updated. this is the same as the last thread!

Yep, Reason users are idiots because you can do everything Reason can do in any other DAW but better.

Check

Because Reason is a never ending promise by design