Kazrog Mhb green

[Kazrog]

I know three more people plus two more people posted issues with ui in this thread.
There's definetely something wrong with your gui, when I switch to simple Reaper gui everything is fine. No other dev that I know has plugins with gui causing issues.

Again, this is not common for the vast majority of users, nor is this something that has been recreated here as of this writing. I've asked you and others multiple times to please open support tickets so we can investigate the specifics of your configuration and try to replicate this - in order to fix it prior to the next free update. We have yet to receive any tickets regarding this edge case as of this writing.

Don't be too proud to admit you are not an accomplished professional plugin dev or that there are devs who do their job better, you still can improve, so you you still have tasks and challenges and that's a good thing, I think.

LOL, what? I'm literally trying to help users, investigate and diagnose an edge case issue with a new product, and this is the response I get in return? After 15 years of making plugins professionally, multiple NAMM TEC Award nominations, and collaborations with Avalon and Michael Brauer, I get it - I'm obviously a n00b. I'm wondering, if I'm "not an accomplished professional plugin dev" - what does it take?

Granted, of course there are others in this industry who have been doing this longer, and/or have far more accomplishments and experience than I do. Up until this exact moment, the thought has crossed my mind to worry about comparing myself to any of those people exactly zero times ever. I've worried about whether or not I am "an accomplished professional plugin dev" exactly zero times ever until today, also.

Like any other human being, I make mistakes. Things don't always go as planned. I adapt, learn, grow, and listen. Kazrog's products have gotten better with every single release and update because of all the things I've learned in the time I've been doing this, and I expect that process will continue indefinitely. It's the nature of software development, and the nature of life.

I hope your simple ui option will be without these issues.

The forthcoming minimalist UI option is purely for workflow and user preference reasons, and has absolutely nothing to do with speed, responsiveness, or efficiency under the hood. The current UI for MHB Green and our other plugins should be immediately responsive and perfectly smooth on any supported setup. If it's not that way for you, then that is most likely an edge case issue that needs to be addressed directly - not sidestepped by an alternative UI option.

I am not referring to the look, even though it's awful, too, you can't hardly read anything,

LOL, OK, I get that exactly replicating the look of a compressor that predates the notion of software and user interfaces, and is the size of a large air fryer was probably not the biggest win for usability. While every effort was made to ensure this is a usable and fun experience to make it look and feel just like the iconic hardware, not everyone has loved the UI, and I knew in advance this would probably become a turning point for us where we'd have to address the growing audience of users who dislike skeuomorphism.

also in preset browser, it's about responsiveness that slows down work flow drastically.

What's happening for you with the preset browser? It, like the rest of the UI, should be instantaneously responsive on any supported setup.

Your reaction is kinda surprising tho'

Which part of it? I'm just trying to help...

[sQeetz]

For what it's worth: I'm not having any CPU spikes or anything like the stuff being discussed here for the last few posts with MHB Green. On neither my rather old MacBook M1 or on on the M2 Pro Mac Mini.
For this purpose I also tried samplerates as high as 192 KHz and, of course, CPU rates spiked as f**k... like expected actually.. Like any plugin does

[multree]

All I can say is that I can verify that the oversampling settings affect the results in Plug-in Doctor.

The results look vastly different for some settings. Above 8x Oversampling the results get a bit unpredictable (or the plug-ins crashes).

Synth Warmer

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everything above 8x crashes PD

True 252

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regarding the interfaces I LOVE the True Series' interfaces, they're simple and easy to use and they look good. I also like the look of the MHB plug-in. I just think that the fonts could be a bit more legible and I dislike the style mixture for the hidden settings (I would've gone hardware look all the way).

I simply use the plug-ins at 4x oversampling during mixing and 8x during rendering but it would certainly be better if I could simply use 32x OS during rendering and not worry about sounds changing or hosts crashing.

[Kazrog]

All I can say is that I can verify that the oversampling settings affect the results in Plug-in Doctor and the host.

Things can get weird when there are insufficient single core resources in order to run the graph. This is why we're moving plugins to adaptive oversampling across the board, as well as making some filter topology optimizations in the next round of updates to alleviate this on a deeper level.

regarding the interfaces I LOVE the True Series' interfaces, they're simple and easy to use and they look good. I also like the look of the MHB plug-in. I just think that the fonts could be a bit more legible and I dislike the style mixture for the hidden settings (I would've gone hardware look all the way).

Thanks! And as for the fonts, I totally understand. While they are rendered in a very crisp way, they are small relative to the controls (just as they are on the hardware.) As for mixed UI, the idea behind that was to create a visual language that distinguishes between precise digital controls and analog modeled controls.

I simply use the plug-ins at 4x oversampling during mixing and 8x during rendering but it would certainly be better if I could simply use 32x OS during rendering and not worry about sounds changing or hosts crashing.

Indeed, 32x is definitely overkill in realtime, as is really anything above about 8x for our plugins. This will be changing in the next update.

[multree]

All I can say is that I can verify that the oversampling settings affect the results in Plug-in Doctor and the host.

Things can get weird when there are insufficient single core resources in order to run the graph. This is why we're moving plugins to adaptive oversampling across the board, as well as making some filter topology optimizations in the next round of updates to alleviate this on a deeper level.

ah okay so this is just a display error and PD is showing false data? truly curious... As we have established in this thread I can't hear frequency differences to save my Leberwurstbrot.

But you say "there are insufficient single core resources" and the plug-in states it's using 1% of the CPU... can both be true at the same time?

[Kazrog]

ah okay so this is just a display error and PD is showing false data? truly curious... As we have established in this thread I can't hear frequency differences to save my Leberwurstbrot.

But you say "there are insufficient single core resources" and the plug-in states it's using 1% of the CPU... can both be true at the same time?

Multiple possible explanations depending on which scenario we're discussing here, actually...

PluginDoctor is, in my experience, reasonably accurate above 200 Hz in linear analysis. When I talk about running the graph, I literally mean the audio DSP graph itself inside the plugin - the data stream. If you're running at 32x realtime, chances are you're maxing out a single core. PluginDoctor will do its best to represent whatever is able to be produced, and that itself is being run through an FFT scope that won't take kindly to things like dropped samples or out of range data.

As for the CPU meter itself in the plugin, it's a best guess approach based on the observed portion of the current core being used in the audio thread. It's by no means going to be accurate in every situation, and you will see it report different values from host to host on the same machine, even with the same settings in your session. That said, you shouldn't be experiencing dropped samples or overloads and having it show 1% usage - that would be very odd.

So, I think if we want to get more specific and granular with this type of discussion, again, a support ticket is a better place to do that as we can deep dive into the specifics of your configuration and arrive at a more accurate explanation of behavior than a broad forum discussion.

[DCrown]

For what it's worth: I'm not having any CPU spikes or anything like the stuff being discussed here for the last few posts with MHB Green. On neither my rather old MacBook M1 or on on the M2 Pro Mac Mini.
For this purpose I also tried samplerates as high as 192 KHz and, of course, CPU rates spiked as f**k... like expected actually.. Like any plugin does

It's not cpu spikes here, plugin reacts too slow. You select a preset and it takes 6-8 seconds and the knobs don't move immediately, it's about responsiveness.
I use the Reaper UI with sliders only, that's ok for me, I don't like the ui anyway and I know dev just made it look like the real thing. Sound of plugin is great.

@Kazrog
You are not an unknown dev, that's not what I mean, but you somehow react like some of us make up things by kinda saying "it's not possible", because on your computer everything is fine.
But it would be better making a plugin work on different computers, wouldn't it?
I am going to use your plugin with Reaper's ui, everything is ok.
Your plugin sounds great and I really do appreciate your help and a simple ui that doesn't look like the real thing I would prefer, because plugins that look like e. g. Valhalla or Waves Renaissance have a faster responsiveness, that's my experience. You generally will notice it more when your work flow is very fast.

[Kazrog]

It's not cpu spikes here, plugin reacts too slow. You select a preset and it takes 6-8 seconds and the knobs don't move immediately, it's about responsiveness.

Wow! That is crazy. I'm sorry that's been your experience, and I will try to recreate this here, whether or not you are willing to provide details about your system.

I use the Reaper UI with sliders only, that's ok for me, I don't like the ui anyway and I know dev just made it look like the real thing. Sound of plugin is great.

OK, thanks, but the UI should work properly on any supported system regardless of your preference.

@Kazrog
You are not an unknown dev, that's not what I mean, but you somehow react like some of us make up things by kinda saying "it's not possible", because on your computer everything is fine.

I have never once said that any reported behavior from a user is "not possible" - not in this thread, nor in any support ticket, nor in any other place or time, ever.

Also, I maintain a lab of many machines spanning the last decade+ and routinely test every release and update on all of them. Additionally, we have a large beta pool of experienced producers with a diverse array of setups that tests every release prior to launch.

So, this entire premise that I'm sitting here on a single computer and telling people that bugs are "not possible" is an absurd, fictional narrative at best.

Again, I'm here to help, and will be investigating this report during the current maintenance update cycle.

But it would be better making a plugin work on different computers, wouldn't it?

Dude... do you really think any sane person who distributes any kind of software commercially or otherwise hasn't considered this?

I am going to use your plugin with Reaper's ui, everything is ok.
Your plugin sounds great.

Thank you! But again, you shouldn't have to resort to a generic Reaper slider UI for a commercial plugin. That's not getting what you paid for, and it needs to be looked into and addressed.

FWIW, I test in Reaper first before any other DAW (since it's so fast to launch), on a wide variety of systems ranging from quite powerful to total potato PCs and have not experienced this behavior as of yet. But I will keep trying!

[multree]

I tested 32x oversampling in a project right now and while it all ran fine, audio suddenly started to oscillate and now the left side of my headphones no longer work. not saying 32x OS caused that, might just be coincidence. but this is what happened and I'm kinda sad cuz I liked those headphones. I really should stop over-analyzing stuff and just make some music.

[Kazrog]

I tested 32x oversampling in a project right now and while it all ran fine, audio suddenly started to oscillate and now the left side of my headphones no longer work. not saying 32x OS caused that, might just be coincidence. but this is what happened and I'm kinda sad cuz I liked those headphones. I really should stop over-analyzing stuff and just make some music.

That is not good. Are you OK?

Try restarting your machine, cycling the power on your audio interface etc. to rule out this being a temporary mute on the software side of things. If your headphones were indeed damaged as a result of this stress test, please open a ticket or PM me here and I can help you out.

On a related safety note, if any of you are going to be stress testing any plugins - not just ours - in this fashion, please keep your monitoring levels low and run a clipper or limiter on your master bus as a safety catch.

[multree]

I'm fine thanks... seems like the low frequency buildup was a bit too much for the cans.... I tried them on my stereo to see if it might be the sound card that's affected but it seems to have been the headphones (since even on the stereo system it was right side only). Luckily enough when I plugged them back into the sound card for a last check they seem to have survived after all. Not sure why they weren't working on two systems and then fixed themselves (not sure how this is possible)... but anyway... lucky to not have destroyed them.

[Kazrog]

I'm fine thanks... seems like the low frequency buildup was a bit too much for the cans.... I tried them on my stereo to see if it might be the sound card that's affected but it seems to have been the headphones (since even on the stereo system it was right side only). Luckily enough when I plugged them back into the sound card for a last check they seem to have survived after all. Not sure why they weren't working on two systems and then fixed themselves (not sure how this is possible)... but anyway... lucky to not have destroyed them.

I'm glad you (and your headphones) are OK.

[pchase]

All I can say is that I can verify that the oversampling settings affect the results in Plug-in Doctor.

The results look vastly different for some settings. Above 8x Oversampling the results get a bit unpredictable (or the plug-ins crashes).

That's super weird! I get the same thing with True252 using EQ Curve Analyzer, it goes crazy at 32x and the graph jumps all over the place.

The difference is super audible too, the bass response completely changes at 32x oversampling, but the plugin never sounds like it's dropping out. That's weird, most plugins when they use too much CPU cause audible drop outs, the sound stops momentarily. What is this plugin doing that causes the sound to continue but the frequency response to change, feeding the previous buffer full of processed audio back to the host? Repeatedly passing back a buffer that's only half-overwritten with the next chunk of audio or something? I can imagine that would change the frequency response in a similar way..

[kmonkey]

So I have Windows 11, Reaper and I have zero issues with this amazing compressor and GUI.

The dev is probably correct. This is not a widespread issue with Reaper. 2 or 3 KVR armchair product specialists are not a definition of "widespread"

I can relate to and sympathize with people having issues. However, to approach the dev like a complete idiot spit on him and his work and bully the developer calling him to admit he is too proud to admit he is not professional (WTF?) deserves a slight alert to moderators of this forum. IMO.

I am like I consider myself less tolerant toward developers but man this is way over the line what some of you guys are doing here.

[Kazrog]

What is this plugin doing that causes the sound to continue but the frequency response to change, feeding the previous buffer full of processed audio back to the host? Repeatedly passing back a buffer that's only half-overwritten with the next chunk of audio or something? I can imagine that would change the frequency response in a similar way..

Without getting out in the weeds with a bunch of DSP theory, this has to do with how the plugin currently approaches anti-cramping for the EQ, and with how it's optimized for realtime performance. This can (and will) be improved in the next update, but if you keep the oversampling parked at 2x you should be fine with True 252 in really any scenario.