Where to actually start?

[vurt]

Not even joking, it took me about as long as med school to get good at mixing.

probably less shenanigans with body parts and organs. med students are f**king weird.

[jamcat]

First you learn to play an instrument.
Then you start writing your own songs.
And then you record them.

In that order.

It’s sort of like first going to medical school, then getting your doctor’s license, and then finally, operating on patients. Also, importantly, in that order.

Had I known making music as a hobby was equivalent to becoming a surgeon earlier I definitely would have picked med school over ableton

I get what you're saying but that's one of the funniest comparisons I've seen in a while

OK, how about this instead:
You want to write a book in Chinese.
First, learn Chinese. Second, come up with an idea to write about. Third, write the book.
Maybe you can fudge the order of 1 and 2. But you're not going to be very successful if you try starting on step #3.

[JerGoertz]

I'm going to try to give you the advice I wish someone had told me when I started out 25 years ago.

Learn the following, in theory AND in practice:

- At least the basics of synthesizer and sampler sound design
- Loop manipulation
- Effects, what they do and when they're appropriate
- Elements of timing (tempo, signature, "humanization")
- Different types of sequencers (traditional, tracker, clip-launcher, maybe others) and which type(s) and model(s) you like
- Basic music theory: Keys, scales, chords, cadences
- Mixing techniques
- Mastering techniques

Check out Mike Senior's "Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio" as a good book to learn from. There are, of course, books on synthesis, music theory, etc. too, but this one came to mind immediately.

Have fun!

[astrothundr]

I'm going to try to give you the advice I wish someone had told me when I started out 25 years ago.

Learn the following, in theory AND in practice:

- At least the basics of synthesizer and sampler sound design
- Loop manipulation
- Effects, what they do and when they're appropriate
- Elements of timing (tempo, signature, "humanization")
- Different types of sequencers (traditional, tracker, clip-launcher, maybe others) and which type(s) and model(s) you like
- Basic music theory: Keys, scales, chords, cadences
- Mixing techniques
- Mastering techniques

Check out Mike Senior's "Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio" as a good book to learn from. There are, of course, books on synthesis, music theory, etc. too, but this one came to mind immediately.

Have fun!

Thank you, this seems like a great list and is pretty much exactly what I was looking for.

First you learn to play an instrument.
Then you start writing your own songs.
And then you record them.

In that order.

It’s sort of like first going to medical school, then getting your doctor’s license, and then finally, operating on patients. Also, importantly, in that order.

Had I known making music as a hobby was equivalent to becoming a surgeon earlier I definitely would have picked med school over ableton

I get what you're saying but that's one of the funniest comparisons I've seen in a while

OK, how about this instead:
You want to write a book in Chinese.
First, learn Chinese. Second, come up with an idea to write about. Third, write the book.
Maybe you can fudge the order of 1 and 2. But you're not going to be very successful if you try starting on step #3.

I didn't mean to be disrespectful or anything, I do understand what you mean and I appreciate the advice. I just have several friends at various stages of their medical career and if music leads me to a similar state as what I've seen them at after a 16 hour ER shift then maybe it's not for me. Not saying that music is easy or anything, it's just that the stress of being responsible for someones life is on a whole different level.

[jamcat]

Writing music is indeed like a 16 hour ER shift. You don’t really get into the zone until 3am on the second day up, and then you really blow your frazzled mind. Of course after you crash and sleep it off for 12 hours you come back in the light of day to listen to what you did at the height of your manic creative insanity, and you immediately click the Delete button, never to speak of the abomination again.

This is what being a musician is all about.

[enroe]

@jamcat:

Haha, yes, very well put. Unfortunately, that is usually what we
do every day or night. Exactly!

[vurt]

First you learn to play an instrument.
Then you start writing your own songs.
And then you record them.

In that order.

It’s sort of like first going to medical school, then getting your doctor’s license, and then finally, operating on patients. Also, importantly, in that order.

Had I known making music as a hobby was equivalent to becoming a surgeon earlier I definitely would have picked med school over ableton

I get what you're saying but that's one of the funniest comparisons I've seen in a while

OK, how about this instead:
You want to write a book in Chinese.
First, learn Chinese. Second, come up with an idea to write about. Third, write the book.
Maybe you can fudge the order of 1 and 2. But you're not going to be very successful if you try starting on step #3.

yet many musicians haven't done the years of training and have still rose to prominence.
from punk to synthpop, there were many now considered greats, who just did it! without years of music theory, or even playing instruments.

the op has already stated his intent is to enjoy a hobby, he's not looking to become a star, so there is absolutely nothing wrong with just trying things, if they enjoy that.

no one is forcing anyone to listen to anything they don't want, keep your own gates by all means, let others mind their own.

[Uncle E]

The thing I wish someone had told me early on was to NOT worry about learning to mix and master. These skills take years to learn, and while doing them is fun and rewarding, I wish I had just paid someone $100 to do it for me in the meantime. You're only young once.

[Shane Sanders]

I've got a few articles that might inspire you—even though you're at the start of your journey, hearing people suggest ways to improve might help you settle into a good foundation. There are so many ways to make music.

https://gazette.gibson.com/learn/strate ... -musician/

[jamcat]

yet many musicians haven't done the years of training and have still rose to prominence.
from punk to synthpop, there were many now considered greats, who just did it! without years of music theory, or even playing instruments.

the op has already stated his intent is to enjoy a hobby, he's not looking to become a star, so there is absolutely nothing wrong with just trying things, if they enjoy that.

no one is forcing anyone to listen to anything they don't want, keep your own gates by all means, let others mind their own.

These are fair points, and I do want to stress that it was not my intention to discourage or dissuade anyone from trying their hand at music.

But what I meant by my comments is that music, as with any artistic pursuit, is really about man's struggle against his own limitations. You will be frustrated by your own inability to realise your artistic visions, and only after years of suffering for your art as you strive for the ideal of the Übermensch will you possibly achieve a Nietzschean transformation of the mind, body, and spirit that sets your artistic expression free. Or you could get Band-in-a-Box.

[Uncle E]

Thus spake Jamcathustra!

[BONES]

So much music has been made just from samples.

Sure but I'll bet all the good stuff was made by people who could play an instrument.

What is talent anyway? Just practice.

Not necessarily. There was a good thread on this topic a few years ago. If I cared more, I'd look it up and provide a link. Practice is no substitute for talent because any talented person who practices the same amount as you will always be better than you (and me, of course). That's just how it goes.

The thing I wish someone had told me early on was to NOT worry about learning to mix and master. These skills take years to learn, and while doing them is fun and rewarding, I wish I had just paid someone $100 to do it for me in the meantime. You're only young once.

Honestly, I've never found that. I've been doing it now for 40+ years and whilst I still get better at it all the time, I think, there was never a time when I didn't feel like I knew what I was doing. I think that's because I never thought it was hard. From my first shitty Boss 6 channel mixer through to today it always seemed perfectly straightforward to me.

Which, of course, is to say that the best advice I can give anyone is not to think of it as difficult. You can make it really hard for yourself if you watch too many YouTube videos or think that you need to have all the same tools as your favourite, famous producers, but if you approach it as a simple problem - I have drums and a bassline, a few synths and some horrible vocals I've recorded in my bathroom and I want to be able to hear them all and for it to sound good - then it can start as a simple journey.

First play around with the volume of each channel and take that as far as you can. Then add some EQ and see if you can dial in the important part of each track, then go back and adjust your levels again. Once you get that as good as you can, you might find that one track, say the vocals, is giving you problems. That's when you can start thinking about things like compressors
to try and fix those issues.

9 times out of 10 that's as much as any of my mixes need. I only do levels while I am building an arrangement and I won't even think about EQ until the arrangement is close to finalised. Even then, I will only EQ those tracks that really need it. I almost never use compression, except on vocals and drums, but that's mostly because I know many other ways of dealing with the kinds of dynamics issues that compression can fix within the synths themselves.

You haven't mentioned it but if you are wanting to make anything other than dance music, a Push3 and Ableton Live are probably not the best choices and they are likely to corral you into a very narrow way of working.

I think the best thing you could do to get started is to put Ableton and your Push away, buy a synth that has a standalone version, like something cheap from Cherry Audio, and learn how to create sounds with it. A basic tutorial video on YouTube might help here. Don't buy Serum or Avenger, buy something that is easy to understand, learn and master. Maybe start with something like this, which is free -



https://www.kvraudio.com/product/synthe ... rry-audio]

Or maybe this, which is $29 -



https://www.kvraudio.com/product/dco-10 ... erry-audio

The reason I am suggesting a standalone instrument is to remove distractions so you can concentrate on the basics before you get into more complex scenarios. I was lucky that I got into this in the early 1980s, when everything was horrendously expensive. I bought a second-hand synth to see if it was something I could get into, then I bought a cheap drum machine, then another synth, etc., building my knowledge and skills as my set-up grew organically. It was probably close to 4 years before I ever managed to put anything together that sounded even remotely like a song but 18 months after that I played my first live show in front of several hundred people.

It shouldn't take anyone four years these days to start making decent songs but the point is that starting slowly made it really easy to learn as I went along. Being presented with something like Live would, I imagine, be quite intimidating for a novice, so try to take it slowly, learning it bit by bit. If it takes you a year or two to end up with something worth sharing, that's how long it takes. Don't try to rush it and don't get discouraged. It's a process and there aren't really any shortcuts.

[Benedict]

I'm with the Bone man

I started with one synth (CZ-1000). That was all I had to I had to work it. No searching and downloading endless presets, loops, AI shite... If I wanted it, I had to make - or more to the point approximate - it. My very first recording was all real-time into a cassette deck, no second chances baby. It is do or die so you find you do more than not. You can't afford to be pedantic or there is nothing, so you do. While this is ever so slightly imperfect, I am still proud that I did it today. It was my first project.

https://benedictroff-marsh.bandcamp.com ... the-horror
(look around, see where I am at now compared to that)

On the subject of Talent, Practice etc. I wrote on that in a course I made on getting your act ready for the bigs (or a release at least). You have to develop your chops or any innate ability is worth nothing. Some are more/less suited to certain tasks but with effort, the basics can be managed (if you let the fear go)
https://benedictroffmarsh.com/2018/01/0 ... reativity/

Which touches on the suggestion to not Mix early on but to Music. While I learned to be a Mix Engineer before being a musician (or composer more accurately) there is merit in not putting the cart before the horse lest one end up with a trainwreck. A bit of sound design and balancing helps get the idea across but all this Ten Tipz n Trix garbage does waaaaaaay more damage than good as it is all fear-based - ie it encourages fear by suggesting that you need more. When really you need to just do and publish. Do and publish, do and publish. Yeah, do and publish again and again is the only 'secret'. Secret only because people ignore that advice every time.

Get one synth and play with it for days, weeks... finding the beauty in there (NOT endlessly pining for insert Band X),



Also, start feeling the beauty of Harmony as that is your building bricks when you start putting sounds to work (with notes).

[Benedict]

Without trying to flood

This conversation had me think about my first years of composing in '88 with virtually no gear (as opposed to virtual gear). I made four analog-style sounds, laid down a simple sequence that repeats with small movements, and then a more flowing lead. I even mixed using only the SSL (style) features to keep it feeling of-the-times. This only took an hour or so all-up (30 years helps there I admit).



This is NOT about whether you like my piece or not, your genre or not, but how simply we should start so that we get solid wins that we can build on. There is no win in setting out to write things way beyond our ability to deliver as that only makes us feel incontinent (sic).

Perhaps, Mr Beginner, you would like to do one of these by setting yourself a 1-2 day time limit at the end of which you publish & share as I have here (open to any/everyone). if you quote me so I get a notification, I promise to pop in and give some feedback.

[vurt]

yet many musicians haven't done the years of training and have still rose to prominence.
from punk to synthpop, there were many now considered greats, who just did it! without years of music theory, or even playing instruments.

the op has already stated his intent is to enjoy a hobby, he's not looking to become a star, so there is absolutely nothing wrong with just trying things, if they enjoy that.

no one is forcing anyone to listen to anything they don't want, keep your own gates by all means, let others mind their own.

These are fair points, and I do want to stress that it was not my intention to discourage or dissuade anyone from trying their hand at music.

But what I meant by my comments is that music, as with any artistic pursuit, is really about man's struggle against his own limitations. You will be frustrated by your own inability to realise your artistic visions, and only after years of suffering for your art as you strive for the ideal of the Übermensch will you possibly achieve a Nietzschean transformation of the mind, body, and spirit that sets your artistic expression free. Or you could get Band-in-a-Box.

but that comes after the initial dabble, or even the "that looks like an easy way to make cash..." they either get the urges, lose sleep and forget meals or they go back to ps5.
not everyone starts out with that mindset, but encouraging them towards that, rather than making it sound negative, is what we should be aiming for!