Korg multi/poly native - reimagined Mono/Poly Synthesizer plugin

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Multi/Poly Native

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frag wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:59 am Dune multi-threading sucks, you know why? Because it's written on a system with Core parking enabled, which is absurd! There's NO way plugin can know what will OS do with threads!

So it's hyperthreading ON in BIOS, Core parking OFF in OS, Multithreading ON in plugin and DAW. If the authors of plugin wrote it this way, it will work perfectly.
Of course, multithreading in DAW may screw up some plugins optimized for single thread performance, but then you just split the voices between two instances running identical patch. Problem solved :clap:

I would definitely expect plugins to implement MT in 2025, but just like on the games market, software writers became lazy - they want you to buy the latest CPU and run a thermal plant in your room, even though good writing would make everything simple and efficient. This sucks big time :hihi:
Putting aside the strange Gamergate "devs are lazy" comment, "multithreading ON in plugin" doesn't mean too much. There is no standard way to implement threading within a VST plugin itself. And due to thread synchronization overhead, it's often not efficient to try to do this. There is one case where it makes sense, and it's the reason in-plugin multithreading was in Diva years ago -- when you want to use a single instance of a synth, and play multiple notes on it, and you have multiple cores in your computer, but each core individually is too weak to run the number of voices you want to play in the synth, and you are running your DAW with enough latency to overcome the thread syncing overhead during the audio rendering callback, and you are not near total CPU utilization with the other things going on in your DAW and other plugins.

Other than that, it's likely to be counterproductive -- the overhead of threading will decrease the total amount of processing power available for audio rendering. Don't believe me? Ask Urs, who recommends turning it off in many situations these days. Or even the Diva manual itself:

firefox_y10we9l2G0.png

It's worth noting that every DAW distributes plugin instances across multiple cores these days, unlike when Diva was released.

By the way, you brought up core parking. The multi-threading thing is a conceptual problem that affects every platform, including Macs. Core parking is a thing specific some AMD and Intel chipset models. If it's causing problems for you in your DAW, that's not really relevant.

The reason I'm mentioning and replying with this is that it's irrelevant to the topic of the Korg multi/poly native synth. Posting that this synth will suck if it doesn't have in-plugin multi-threading is not true and this whole tangent is a derail.
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wrong thread :oops:

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EnGee wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:23 am
Well, let's see when they release it. Maybe in use it feels different. But yes the layers I'm not a fan of. I much prefer one layer or at most 2 layers but not more. What's the point of those layers?! I don't have only 4 tracks! I can layer whatever tracks and instruments if I want to.
I'm a bit conflicted with layers also. In sw it doesn't make as much sense as in hw. Easy to use more channels, another synth. But then I've used Wavestation for decades, now Wavestate and even in sw the layers do make sense, because of the type of multifaceted pads it draws you into making. So I guess the same can be done with VA. I can imagine making complicated arp patches where different sounds arpeggiate in different directions, pads with lots of movement that'd be difficult to make with just one layer, plucky hits with follow-on sustained sound similar to Wavestate capabilities, swirly sounds with layers of different pwm stuff etc. It effectively gives you 4 X the voices but with individual rather than global control. And MP can be used with just one layer for standard VA sounds if wanted - though $200 is a bit steep for just one VA.

There's definitely still a place for layers. Doesn't make as much sense for many types of sounds if you want mainly leads, basses etc and I understand that. TBH it would be a waste of money to use MP for that. Despite being VA, it's strength probably lies more in ambient, or noodly stuff. Korg always made cracking synths for that. I'm sure MP can make fat basses and mega unison hits, but that's not what I'd buy it for - already have shitloads of synths that can do that. It actually makes me think Wavestate with a different flavor - analogue instead of brittle digital clean. Both synths compliment each other hopefully.

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kritikon wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:06 am
EnGee wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 10:23 am
Well, let's see when they release it. Maybe in use it feels different. But yes the layers I'm not a fan of. I much prefer one layer or at most 2 layers but not more. What's the point of those layers?! I don't have only 4 tracks! I can layer whatever tracks and instruments if I want to.
I'm a bit conflicted with layers also. In sw it doesn't make as much sense as in hw. Easy to use more channels, another synth. But then I've used Wavestation for decades, now Wavestate and even in sw the layers do make sense, because of the type of multifaceted pads it draws you into making. So I guess the same can be done with VA. I can imagine making complicated arp patches where different sounds arpeggiate in different directions, pads with lots of movement that'd be difficult to make with just one layer, plucky hits with follow-on sustained sound similar to Wavestate capabilities, swirly sounds with layers of different pwm stuff etc. It effectively gives you 4 X the voices but with individual rather than global control. And MP can be used with just one layer for standard VA sounds if wanted - though $200 is a bit steep for just one VA.

There's definitely still a place for layers. Doesn't make as much sense for many types of sounds if you want mainly leads, basses etc and I understand that. TBH it would be a waste of money to use MP for that. Despite being VA, it's strength probably lies more in ambient, or noodly stuff. Korg always made cracking synths for that. I'm sure MP can make fat basses and mega unison hits, but that's not what I'd buy it for - already have shitloads of synths that can do that. It actually makes me think Wavestate with a different flavor - analogue instead of brittle digital clean. Both synths compliment each other hopefully.
Well, I can understand how useful it is for a hardware performer. Say, you are in a band and need a pad in addition to arp and fx and maybe another pad, all to sound at the same time (or programmed to whatever timing you want). But for someone using a computer, it doesn't make sense. I found it better to combine different synths and sounds each one in its track.

The biggest drawback for presets that has layers, is when you try to edit them! It is a nightmare really especially that layers are not named. Just layer A, B, C and D! or 1 .. 8 (Dune!). Personally, I don't plan to use more than one layer.

I agree that $199 is expensive for me, especially when you converted to NZ dollars now (NZ$ 356) :mad: No way! especially I have much more synths than I need! It must be so special that no synth I have can match it in sound ability and quality, which I doubt.
Using: Cubase Pro 15, Reason 13, Tascam US-4x4HR, MODX6, DM12D, LaunchKey 49, Yamaha guitar(Pacifica 612v) and bass (BB234) and some virtual instruments and synths.

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I actually like it when synths have layering capabilities. For one, it means I can save the preset in the synth's preset format, without having to worry about saving it as an Ableton Live rack, or a Bitwig chain, or whatever, which only works in one DAW. It also means I don't have to worry about timing issues with the note/attack onset, since the plugin's internal timing will be consistent with itself across layers, which is not always true when you layer separate synths together in a DAW, depending on the plugin and if it treats note-ons with sample accuracy. Dune 3's layering seems more geared towards the differential unison thing, though you can twist its arm and make it treat the layers somewhat independently. Parawave Rapid has pretty good layering capabilities.

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tumface wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2025 11:52 pm There is no standard way to implement threading within a VST plugin itself.
There are no standards because there is no willingness to implement them :dog:
It's not metaphysics!!!

Do you hardware sellers get sandwiches for these posts? Who even reads this?
Well Mr. computer hardware sellers, looks like you're going out of business. :lol:

I'm looking forward to demo Multi/Poly on my "shitty ancient" 24 thread CPU, in an almost 20 year old sequencer which does everything I need. Polyphony drop - easy fix!

Oh look at me I'm so poor, I can't afford new PC :( :( :(

LOLZ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

What a load of BS!!!! Of course CORE PARKING & OTHER WEIRD ENERGY SAVING SOLUTIONS PRODUCE CRACKLING. Imagine multithread plugin needs to run something on a different thread, but the OS or BIOS suddenly shuts down that thread!!! Of course audio will glitch. :x

Multithread plugin/DAW needs to be written on a system with ALL THREADS 100% AVAILABLE ALL THE TIME. That's your "mysterious" standard.

The problem is Microsoft, Apple, Intel, AMD, or whomever, implement all kinds of energy saving crap, so you're never sure if you disabled everything :x
With proper multithreading, you don't need new 350W CPU which melts your PC.
For example, 12-16 threads on a 3rd gen Intel is more than sufficient in any realistic musical scenario :)

People deserve to know they're being manipulated. Personally, I don't give a f***, I have a solution for myself.

Byeeeeeeeee

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So, you people say that this new plugin will tax the cpu heavily? HOw do you know that, if there yet is no demo available?

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Sometimes I think KVR is a computer geek forum rather than a music forum. Anyone care to talk about how it sounds?
X32 and 24C mixers, S88MK3, Live + PUSH 3, Osmose, RedShift 6, Pro3, S4, Tempera, Syntakt, Digitone, OP1-F, OPXY, TR-1000, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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SLiC wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2025 11:09 amAnyone care to talk about how it sounds?
I'm sure that when it's released in a month or so, people can use it and talk about how the plugin sounds.

Until release, you'll just have to look up demos of the hardware version, which has been released, and which the plugin should sound essentially identical to. Discussion of that should be in the hardware forum, though.

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beely wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:01 pm
SLiC wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2025 11:09 amAnyone care to talk about how it sounds?
I'm sure that when it's released in a month or so, people can use it and talk about how the plugin sounds.

Until release, you'll just have to look up demos of the hardware version, which has been released, and which the plugin should sound essentially identical to. Discussion of that should be in the hardware forum, though.
Ah, I thought it was released (for hardware owners, says it downloadable on Korg website) as people seemed to be talking about how much CPU it needed! Strange to have it on the Korg site the way if no release is yet available.
X32 and 24C mixers, S88MK3, Live + PUSH 3, Osmose, RedShift 6, Pro3, S4, Tempera, Syntakt, Digitone, OP1-F, OPXY, TR-1000, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!

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SLiC wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2025 11:09 am Anyone care to talk about how it sounds?
FWIW, I posted this but it got lost in the multi-threading crossfire:

Listening to the Soundcloud demos on the site, my impression is Korg is using outdated DSP which is not in the same class as the top tier stuff. My overall impression is "meh."

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What do you consider the top tier DSP stuff out of curiosity?
I personally rate, most of the stuff out of Dan's team (wavestate, modwave, arp 2600) in my top tier soundwise... they all sound fantastic..especially arp 2600... I am sure the multipoly will also be in this group based on tons of audio samples i have heard on youtube and elsewhere.

rsp
sound sculptist

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zvenx wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2025 4:02 pm What do you consider the top tier DSP stuff out of curiosity?
I personally rate, most of the stuff out of Dan's team (wavestate, modwave, arp 2600) in my top tier soundwise... they all sound fantastic..especially arp 2600... I am sure the multipoly will also be in this group based on tons of audio samples i have heard on youtube and elsewhere.
When I want bread and butter analog sounds, I usually reach for u-he Repro-5. It never disappoints.

I'm hoping my first impression of Multipoly is wrong and I hear something that changes my mind. Korg Polysix was one of my first plugins and I have fond memories of it.

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EnGee wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:54 am
I agree that $199 is expensive for me, especially when you converted to NZ dollars now (NZ$ 356) :mad: No way! especially I have much more synths than I need! It must be so special that no synth I have can match it in sound ability and quality, which I doubt.
Aaaaah....yeah I'd forgotten about conversion :dog: . I got Wavestate and Opsix native on the cheap, as I already had the hw, so they were only $75 or thereabouts. $356 does actually sound ridiculous for a VA. WS and OP6 native do bring something unique to the table and possibly even worth the full price, but I agree - not sure MP brings anything special to the table to be worth a fkn hefty fee. Don't they usually have an intro discount at US$150? At least that brings it in at sub $300. Still sounds a lot though... :scared:

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Yes they did the $150 price with others but I might aim to 50% discount, maybe on BF. I don’t know really. I think the hardware still not in NZ, maybe out of stock in Music Planet. I haven’t look at other dealers. There is a good discount on other synths like Modwave, OPsix etc from the korg hardware. Modwave is tempting but I rather buy Hydra explorer (mini). Anyway, hardware don’t look practical these days.
Using: Cubase Pro 15, Reason 13, Tascam US-4x4HR, MODX6, DM12D, LaunchKey 49, Yamaha guitar(Pacifica 612v) and bass (BB234) and some virtual instruments and synths.

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