Nuendo vs Sonar again

[7XL]

FYI, you no longer have to pay for an mp3 encoder, as someone stated earlier, you can use any mp3 encoder that you chose, free, cheap or expensive.

[WillieJenkins]

Then you must by a licenc to use the mp3 encoder.

This is not cakewalks fault, to use an mp3 encoder you must pay a licensing fee.

They could be nice and pay it for you, and they could, if they wanted, simply absorb the cost without the ham-handed direct increase of the product price.

The vendor made its choice, and this particular consumer sees it as penny-pinching greed.

I have some bad news for you, other products don't 'absorb' the price, they factor it in for you. They assume you're willing to pay for SOMETHING THATS FREE.

someone me from flawed logic...

[SickNick2020]

some of you forgot that the comparison is between the newer products, i consider rewire important cause i use reasons sounds a lot, the comparison is nuendo 3 and sonar 4, i havent used them yet, ive tried nuendo 2 and sonar 3, sonar 3 had the problem where it would make that weird annoying noise when pushing play. it seemed ok, i didnt like it in rewire cause the automation was bad, it was annoying pickin what to rewire to, nuendo did it automatically 4 me, from what i heard automation got better in sonar4 can someone confirm it, keep goin at this topic there good comparisons

[LoRez]

Over and over again the same useless topic.

1. Nuendo and Sonar are not in the same class. Remember, THEY ARE NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE!!!

I'm saying this just to explain the price difference.

I'm afraid there are to many people out there using Nuendo even if they don't know what is the difference between Nuendo and Cubase, except for the price.

IMHO, it doesn't matter who uses Sonar or Cubase, a famous user doesn't make an app pro.

As a owner of both platforms (Sonar3PE and Cubase SL2) I can say that Cubase has more features and many improvements in the workflow are over Sonar.
If anybody wants to discuss this already discussed topic again, do it but please give me facts.

A question to Sonar users: tell me, what has Cakewalk improved or changed in the way how Sonar edits midi since Proaudio ver. 5 or 6 (in other words in the past 10 years!). Can you name 5 things they have improved or built in!?

I'll give you one: Midi groove clips...and they're freakin' cool. No equiv in Cubase AFAIK. Also, didn't these things start out as midi editors?!?!? So really wouldn't you think that the imporvements over the years needed to be based around audio, and virtual instruments and mixing, etc. What do you need to do to Midi in Sonar that you can't do now?

And BTW: Nuendo and Sonar ARE in the same class for the most part. They both have some features that each other lacks, and admittedly Nuendo has some esoteric features for film mainly revolving around synchronization and post delivery. These features obviously make Nuendo indespesible to a fraction of users and I believe does indeed justify the price. However, I don't htink this puts them in different leagues or classes.

[LoRez]

Nuendo may look slick and in my eyes that's about the only edge it has over Sonar. It feels bulky maybe if I had 3 or 4 monitors I'd feel different. To my ears the effects that are packaged with Nuendo are barely usable, the ones in Sonar are acceptable. Useig Nuendo for music composition is like trying to drive in a brad with a sledgehammer. Just my opinion guys.

But you wouldn't feel better if you had 3 or 4 monitors because, unless they changed something in v.3, the multi-monitor support sucks.

[SickNick2020]

i just tried out the demo for sonar 4, same reasons i dont like sonar 3, i dont like the way the rewire works. when it comes to rewire, i love tracktion, but i hate the editing on tracktion, nuendo i think works best when it comes to work flow as alot of people said. i cant say sonar 4 is a bad program, deffinately not but i liike nuendo over it. if i have problems on the price their is always cubase which is almost identical and like 1/4 of the price lol

[munchkin]

All these 'professional' Nuendo users wasting their 'professional' time running down Sonar. Haven't they got anything better to do like produce the latest Britney album or something?

If a musician needs Nuendo to produce an album/ multimedia project because s/he can't do it in Sonar then I question their capability.

It's ok to prefer one over the other but to get snooty about it and try to claim superiority is embarrassing. And demonstrates an insecurity about about the comparison.

[UltraJv]

Im with Munchkin - I belive the thread was started by an insecure Sonar user

[RoyNoahJones]

If a musician needs Nuendo to produce an album/ multimedia project because s/he can't do it in Sonar then I question their capability.

Man, your statement is questionable.
1.For Multimedia Projects the arsenal of post-production tools available in Nuendo are NOT available in Sonar.(Wide Range of export formats, encoding, and multiple mixing facilities).

2.Though we know that Nuendo includes all SX features, and it's not a secret that without going in depth, the fact of Native VST plugins, DX, VSTi and the way rewire is handled, makes it a first choice for Cubase users and ex-logic users. Nobody wants to deal with wrappers. And even though Sonar is a nice app, it still has to learn from its competitors.

3.Basicly any apps that can record midi notes and audiofiles is enough, so, if i follow your idea, Sonar 4 is over featured .

Cheers

[LoRez]

If a musician needs Nuendo to produce an album/ multimedia project because s/he can't do it in Sonar then I question their capability.

Man, your statement is questionable.
1.For Multimedia Projects the arsenal of post-production tools available in Nuendo are NOT available in Sonar.(Wide Range of export formats, encoding, and multiple mixing facilities).

2.Though we know that Nuendo includes all SX features, and it's not a secret that without going in depth, the fact of Native VST plugins, DX, VSTi and the way rewire is handled, makes it a first choice for Cubase users and ex-logic users. Nobody wants to deal with wrappers. And even though Sonar is a nice app, it still has to learn from its competitors.

3.Basicly any apps that can record midi notes and audiofiles is enough, so, if i follow your idea, Sonar 4 is over featured .

Cheers

"Nobody wants to deal with wrappers". Talk about a questionable statement. Your point about native vst vs. wrappers is a red-herring so I'm not even gonna approach that one because it's been discussed ad nauseum. Everyone has their opinion on this one...

However, I am curious what you mean by "multiple mixing facilities". Can you explain? Also, what encoding and export formats does Nuendo have that Sonar doesn't? Not being argumentative, just curious as I couldn't think of any off the top of my head...but I'm sure there must be some. I guess as far as formats I can think of a few: OpenTL is definitely one but not very useful unless you use an MX2424. AAF and AES are also examples I suppose and I really hope these catch on and become even more commonplace.
I would also contend that Cubase is not necessarily the first choice for ex-logic users as I know a number of ex-logic users that went to Sonar (and a number that use Cubase as well for that matter). Basically, I think that part of the argument was just speculation, unless you have some data you want to point to?

For what it's worth I CAN in fact envision scenarios where someone would actually NEED Nuendo to at least finish and deliver their project. Which is why I've always said that I don't think Nuendo is necessarily overpriced at all. However, these are some very specific features that only some poeple need in certain circumstances.

[WillieJenkins]

The only people who 'dont want to deal with wrappers' are the people who've never used them

There are certain triggers that you can see when people have a bias against certain software, and this is clearly one of them. Statements like that render your whole arguments suspect.

For example, what happens when you install a new VSTi then load a VST only host like Cubase/Live/Whatever. It scans the plugin directory, then pauses on the new vsti while its enabling it inside said host.

This is the same behavior the cakewalk adapter has as well, except that you just run this app when you install a new plugin once, then it exposes it to Sonar.

The intelligent argument that can be made however is that the Cakewalk VST Adapter doesn't support midi out from plugs yet, rendering supatrigga and a select other few plugs useless inside Sonar.


-edit-
I'm also in agreement that there will be certain cases where Nuendo is NEEDED for the project as it does have some esoteric features that may be essential for a particular user. The fact that Nuendo retails for 3x the price of Sonar reflects this.
-edit-

[munchkin]

If a musician needs Nuendo to produce an album/ multimedia project because s/he can't do it in Sonar then I question their capability.

Man, your statement is questionable.
1.For Multimedia Projects the arsenal of post-production tools available in Nuendo are NOT available in Sonar.(Wide Range of export formats, encoding, and multiple mixing facilities).

2.Though we know that Nuendo includes all SX features, and it's not a secret that without going in depth, the fact of Native VST plugins, DX, VSTi and the way rewire is handled, makes it a first choice for Cubase users and ex-logic users. Nobody wants to deal with wrappers. And even though Sonar is a nice app, it still has to learn from its competitors.

3.Basicly any apps that can record midi notes and audiofiles is enough, so, if i follow your idea, Sonar 4 is over featured .

Cheers

But how often do musicians and people creating multimedia need all these options? The mind set from certain Nuendo users seems to be that unless you have everything but the kitchen sink then nothing else will do.

Did Nuendo always have these features? No! (he says answering himself.) The truth is that when Nuendo 4 comes out certain insecure Nuendo users will be claiming that nothing else is good enough. So how come they were able to create and post-produce adequately with Nuendo 1, 2 & 3? It's selective amnesia. Goldfish mentality.

The irony is that if Cakewalk released a version of Sonar that included a few more features than Nuendo those Nuendo users would jump ship and be bragging about how they had the best host in town. It's still not possible to do everything in Nuendo so there is always room for improvement in everything.

This is all about oneupmanship by certain Nuendo users. Rather than acknowledging that most of the leading hosts can be used to create sound for multimedia nowdays they have to bash everyone else. I can only imagine this is to feel superior for some sad reason. Nuendo/Sonar/Cubase/Logic, take your pick. They're all capable of excellent results.

[SickNick2020]

some of you people took this thread the wrong way, its not supposed to elect one program best and trash the other. i think sonar 4 is a great program its almost identical feature wise to nuendo, there are many differences but bottom line every program offers basic features that are pretty much the only thing people use. i just said ill take nuendo over sonar just because i prefer the workflow and automation on it. it just works better for me it does things without me asking it. the programs are almost identical, just small features that 1 includes that the other dosent, nd different work flows for each, some prefers sonar workflow some prefer nuendo's or cubase's. i wasnt trying to trash another program or put it down, i know what each is capable of

[LoRez]

some of you people took this thread the wrong way, its not supposed to elect one program best and trash the other. i think sonar 4 is a great program its almost identical feature wise to nuendo, there are many differences but bottom line every program offers basic features that are pretty much the only thing people use. i just said ill take nuendo over sonar just because i prefer the workflow and automation on it. it just works better for me it does things without me asking it. the programs are almost identical, just small features that 1 includes that the other dosent, nd different work flows for each, some prefers sonar workflow some prefer nuendo's or cubase's. i wasnt trying to trash another program or put it down, i know what each is capable of

For what it's worth, I don't think anyone thought you were bashing one or the other.

[WillieJenkins]

I certainly didn't, none of my posts were directed at you. The only reason I post on a few topics with fervor is because when I first started getting into electronic based composition, I used KVR and a few other select forums for alot of information.

Unfortunately, what I got was a bunch of misinformation, lies, half-truths and bias. Consequently I've decided that whenever I see .... misleading posts about Sonar I tend to post the truth, from a daily Sonar user perspective so that cats who are in the position I used to be won't be let astray.