Roland Cloud

[BBFG#]

Why would a large company like Roland somehow have lost all their important schematics and patented code and design?
And why would they not make any more soft synths?
None of this makes any sense at all.

Cocaine?

[IvyBirds]

Why would a large company like Roland somehow have lost all their important schematics and patented code and design?
And why would they not make any more soft synths?
None of this makes any sense at all.

Things like that are more likely to happen in a large company like Roland

The JP8000 came out in 1996 that was 29 years ago. It ran bespoke code on bespoke chips. When that was made the idea that you would want to emulate it 30 years later as a software synthesizer on 2025 computers never entered anyone's mind

Since the JP8000 came out, Roland came out with many other different custom bespoke chips

The need to keep the knowledge base of programming the custom chip in a 1996 product just doesn't exist. There would have been zero financial reasons to do so, and the software and computers used to write that original code no longer exists and the engineers who wrote have long since retired or maybe even passed away

As for writing new code for software synths, you would need to ask the people who write the software for the Roland Cloud. It's been almost 3 years now since they have released anything new on that front, but the representatives on this forum keep on promising new Synths

In that time we have gotten a model of a tape delay, a piano based instrument, and a guitar amplifier but no new Synths

The Synths in the Roland Cloud follow the lead of the Roland Hardware. If they develop new hardware they will make it in software potentially

We haven't seen any new Roland Hardware Synths in a while, everything is either ACB based or Zencore based

All of the current Roland Software is either ACB based or Zencore based

If Roland makes something new it won't be that and they can't really rehash them anymore

[BBFG#]

I disagree. It's generally less likely for a large company to lose information. Especially those that incorporate a team of lawyers to protect their proprietary data at all costs. And if they do, then there should be no legal recourse toward anyone that's able to effectively capture it. But Roland is always first and foremost about "residual income". Consumers are just a means to that end. It's all about how they can keep you on that string.

[IvyBirds]

I disagree. It's generally less likely for a large company to lose information. Especially those that incorporate a team of lawyers to protect their proprietary data at all costs.

What good to anyone outside of Roland was the proprietary code to run software on proprietary bespoke chips that only Roland made?

Roland makes hardware electronics. Their view in the late 1990s when they killed off the JP8000 was that there was no longer a market for such a product in the hardware electronics market, and if they or anyone else ever wanted to make a similar product in the future they would never go back and revisit the code and remake production of those proprietary chips that only Roland knew how to make and that even Roland had no interest in making more of. Not when new computer chip technology was improving at such a fast pace with ever increasing speeds at reduced costs

One thing every large company is terrible at is archiving things that hold no value, that was even more true in the mid-late 1990s when we didn't have large data centers that could store vast sums of data

[Digivolt]

They must have the documentation for the TC170C140 chip lying around somewhere, you don't just throw those things away surely ? Now if modern programmers can understand the code is another thing, maybe it's like the modern NASA engineers who don't have the technical ability to rebuild Saturn V rockets so had to come with up a completely new design

[Examigan]

They must have the documentation for the TC170C140 chip lying around somewhere, you don't just throw those things away surely ? Now if modern programmers can understand the code is another thing, maybe it's like the modern NASA engineers who don't have the technical ability to rebuild Saturn V rockets so had to come with up a completely new design

At least the code (computer guidance etc.) is still around for the Apollo missions.

[Examigan]

I wasn’t sure why this was in the Effects section, but it looked interesting.

“RdPiano accurately emulates SA-synthesis digital pianos, such as the Roland MKS-20, RD1000 and the Rhodes MK-80 electric piano. It simulates the CPU-B board reused in different models, emulating the CPU and the custom chips.”

https://github.com/giulioz/rdpiano?tab=readme-ov-file

[BBFG#]

If they don't have the code anymore, how can they prove it's still "proprietary"?

[PAK]

Someone probably got their wires crossed about their ESP2 chip and lost code. It’s a Toshiba ASIC where Roland designed parts for their own needs, and it was used in a bunch of their products from the time. Being a custom chip no details are public. But they probably still have these.

Same goes for the JP-8000 code itself. Since it’s early VA code, which targets a specific custom processor, there's little reason to reuse it. From their perspective there would've been better ways of doing a VA synth - both from the quality side and the resource usage side (Sample based Supersaws? )

The real question is, even if they still have the code, will they do better than their other digital approximations like the D-50 and JD-800? A ballpark VA would miss much of the point. EG Some of the JP8K’s sonic signature is based on what the mixer does to the upper frequencies. Put it through a Lexicon reverb and job done for early Tarnce sounds. Innit. If it doesn’t translate stuff like that then there’s not much point to offering an emulation..

Knowing Roland they’ll also leave it long enough that someone else will have long since came along to make it irrelevant. It’s now looking like TAL’s going to do that with the JX8P. How many years have they had for an ACB version of it? The phrase too little too late comes to mind.

[IvyBirds]

It’s now looking like TAL’s going to do that with the JX8P.

And it will probably be $89 or less, and won't have any need to phone home once a month

[Septic Underground]

And TAL adds features and fixes bugs when you ask Patrick directly, some times within a day.
Best support ever.

[sprnva]

Things might be changing at TAL. Read the second entry on their FAQ page.

[vulpes777]

Things might be changing at TAL. Read the second entry on their FAQ page.

OT: Do you mean this?

"Our products validate the computer registration from time to time."

Because that does not mean they phone home like RC does. If that was the case, why provide offline activation in the first place?

I read that as "Our products check they are running on the machine(s) on which they were originally activated.", but maybe that's just me.

Regards,

--
Marco

[IvyBirds]

Things might be changing at TAL. Read the second entry on their FAQ page.

The terms you are referring to are not new for TAL

I have multiple TAL Synths on a computer in my studio that is pretty much never connected to the Internet as it's locked into a LAN that I use for my Audiogridder Network

Maybe every six to nine months at most I will connect to the internet and run any updates needed for everything and then it's back to the dedicated LAN with no Internet

I have no idea what is going on behind the.scenes it's probably telling a server somewhere that my computer with my serial number wants to check for updates, and that server is probably validating that it's valid and sends any updates down the pipe

What I do know that if I didn't do that, it would continue to work indefinitely

Meanwhile I had my Roland Cloud Software connected to the Internet on my laptop in my home studio and checked for updates, four hours later at the Gig where there wasn't WiFi or cell service (outdoor wedding on a farm in the mountains) I couldn't run it because it needed to phone home. Keep in mind I have a lifetime key that was worthless

You tell me what is the better system? TAL's or the Roland Cloud?

[sprnva]

The terms you are referring to are not new for TAL

What I do know that if I didn't do that, it would continue to work indefinitely

You tell me what is the better system? TAL's or the Roland Cloud?

To my knowledge (I only have their free stuff) TAL was always a simple serial number that didn't require any interaction with the outside world. The wording on the FAQ suggests this is changing. I just wanted to mention this to prevent anyone getting any nasty surprises.

I can't check older versions of the FAQ as The Wayback Machine is down right now. I'll try again tomorrow but posts here suggest these terms are in fact new.

Even at this it's not as bad as Roland Cloud, but not as good as it has been.